log091700

Session Start: Sun Sep 17 20:36:35 2000 *** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence *** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Energy" 2,9Sunday 2,11September 17 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed. (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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Elissa . . .hi everyone
ATracy_in_FL . . .Hi Elissa
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RevRandy . . .hello TF
RevRandy . . .Hi AT
TF88 . . .hi randy
Elissa . . .hey TF :)
TF88 . . .hello everyone
TF88 . . .hey E :)
RevRandy . . .wow - a whole Florida contingent tonight
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RevRandy . . .Hanna!!!
Elissa . . .((((((((((((((((((hanna))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hanna . . .Hey hey! :)
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Hanna . . .hey blue!RevRandy . . .hey blue
Elissa . . .hey blue :)
TF88 . . .hi blue!
bluelight . . .hi Hanna!!! Lissa Revrandy TF88 atracy mm Whew! i get em all?
RevRandy . . .you did just fine, m'am
bluelight . . .:D
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Elissa . . .deni-face has arrived :)
Deni . . .hi Hanna :)
Deni . . .hi Lissa-poo
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Hanna . . .:)) So nice to see everyone
deezee . . .nice to see you Hanna
RevRandy . . .So, here we all are, on a wonderful Sunday evening (unless you are tuning in from across the dateline)
RevRandy . . .and so let's see if we can settle down, ..... grab a seat
bluelight . . .:)
RevRandy . . .no, keep your hands to yourself
bluelight . . .lol
RevRandy . . .but seriously, welcome to Spiritual Persistence
RevRandy . . .our weekly chance to interact with some of the wisdom from beyond.
ATracy_in_FL . . .YES
Elissa . . .welcome everyone... physical and spiritual :)
ATracy_in_FL . . .I like the company im in
RevRandy . . .Before we begin, any of you out there want to learn more about what SP is, why we are here doing this, etc etc
RevRandy . . .do we need our intro???????
Hanna . . .No intro.. unless it tells us why we are here and what the winning lotto numbers are for this week
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Elissa . . .ok, here comes the intro whether you want it or not lol
Elissa . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa . . .Williamsburg, VA.
Elissa . . .I am a writer, medium, and counselor with
Elissa . . .a Masters degree (M.Ed.) in Community Counseling.
Elissa . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa . . .on August 20, 1995. She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for the
Elissa . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa . . .Ponder. It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa . . .and death, of connection, and of our place in the universe.
Elissa . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives. We are here to
Elissa . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore what it means
Elissa . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa . . .or email Randy (RevRandy@spiritualpersistence.com)
Elissa . . .or me (ebb@spiritualpersistence.com) any time. Please let us know
Elissa . . .if you would like to be on our email list. Thanks for coming...
Elissa . . .and again, welcome!
Elissa . . .Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
RevRandy . . .Well, remember, we can deal with questions as we go along ... we like questions
RevRandy . . .Before we begin, we offer some simple words of invocation,
RevRandy . . .please join in the spirit of these words:
RevRandy . . . 0,2May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy . . . 0,2Protected from all things evil
RevRandy . . . 0,2And guided in all ways gracious.
RevRandy . . .Namaste
Deni . . .Amen
Hanna . . .Blessings to all
TF88 . . .peace
Elissa . . .amen~
bluelight . . .amen
ATracy_in_FL . . . 6Amen
RevRandy . . .And in our usual format
RevRandy . . .we have some material to share with y'all
RevRandy . . .and it will be in the form of two points to ponder in the first hour
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RevRandy . . .and then a big one for the second hour
Elissa . . .hey sharon :)
Elissa . . .and hi wt... missed you before
Sharon . . .hi elissa my friend
Sharon . . .glad I got here in time!
RevRandy . . .these all came to us this past week in a long communication with Rikkity and friends
RevRandy . . .I will share out the point to be discussed, add a few comments of my own, Elissa may add some, and then it is open discussion
RevRandy . . .so, if we are all ready, here is that first point for us to ponder
RevRandy . . .and remember this evening we are thinking about energy
RevRandy . . . 0,2ED:
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Hi. And good to meet you. Here's an idea:
RevRandy . . . 0,2The ancients thought the greatest power in the world was the sun,
RevRandy . . . 0,2and so they made the sun god;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and then they thought it was water and worshiped the river.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And then fire.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And now you there worship the atom and electrical power.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Yet, you see the ancients as being naive with their sun and river and fires.
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Now, I wonder what is naive about the electrical era.
RevRandy . . . 0,2You can't see it from within, but time--so to speak--will tell.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Remember that ultimates are all temporal.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, if you base your future on one thing you will miss the real future.
RevRandy . . . 0,2You could be left sitting on the banks of the Nile,
RevRandy . . . 0,2waiting for the fertility of the spring floods (it's an analogy).
RevRandy . . . 0,2But there have been trends across all of these understandings.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Look for the trends, not the specifics;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and then look for the trend of the trends, etc., etc. Bye." (9/15/2000)
RevRandy . . .And before anyone asks, we do not know more about ED (initials) than that.
RevRandy . . .only that this spirit was shared with us on friday
Elissa . . .except she's a she... or was
RevRandy . . .yep
RevRandy . . .and when I read this over, I was fascinated by a couple of things -
RevRandy . . .one this notion of trends of trends ... moving away from specifics
RevRandy . . .and also
RevRandy . . .that all of the origins of things that form a basis for some form of cultural organization and spiritual meaning were physical
RevRandy . . .even as we move from the distant (sun) to the more immediate (water) to the internal (atoms and electricity)
RevRandy . . .it has been a progression of physical realities that have been the basis for worship
RevRandy . . .yet worship is supposed to be about things spiritual.
RevRandy . . .what kind of a trend is that?
RevRandy . . .is it the kind of trend where
RevRandy . . .no matter how long you follow it, you will never get where you want to go?
RevRandy . . .You know, such as trying to find Florida by driving from New York on an east or west bound highway
RevRandy . . .that you may keep getting a better sense of where florida is, but you get no closer to it
RevRandy . . .Have we just been fine tuning a system of thought, using our energies in the pursuit of perfecting a direction,
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RevRandy . . .which is not leading us where we want to go?
RevRandy . . .That, in itself, would be a trend we need to notice.
RevRandy . . .What if we have been focusing on the wrong energy all this time?
RevRandy . . .Then I guess we would be sitting by the Nile waiting for the spring floods, while a whole universe is awaiting our gaze in some other realm
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RevRandy . . .I heard this as inviting us to realise how often we mistake forces for energy
RevRandy . . .But, what do you see here? I will repost it so you can see it again
RevRandy . . . 0,2ED:
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Hi. And good to meet you. Here's an idea:
RevRandy . . . 0,2The ancients thought the greatest power in the world was the sun,
RevRandy . . . 0,2and so they made the sun god;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and then they thought it was water and worshiped the river.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And then fire.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And now you there worship the atom and electrical power.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Yet, you see the ancients as being naive with their sun and river and fires.
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Now, I wonder what is naive about the electrical era.
RevRandy . . . 0,2You can't see it from within, but time--so to speak--will tell.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Remember that ultimates are all temporal.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, if you base your future on one thing you will miss the real future.
RevRandy . . . 0,2You could be left sitting on the banks of the Nile,
RevRandy . . . 0,2waiting for the fertility of the spring floods (it's an analogy).
RevRandy . . . 0,2But there have been trends across all of these understandings.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Look for the trends, not the specifics;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and then look for the trend of the trends, etc., etc. Bye." (9/15/2000)
Elissa . . .one thing i see in this is the connection we make between God and energy, and it made me wonder where that comes from
Elissa . . .i also noticed a trend from what we have the least control over (sun) to what we can harness and control for our own benefit and use...
Elissa . . .and all of those energies are life-giving or enhancing
Deni . . .what came to mind for me was we put so much value in externals like the sun and sea etc...when the "Greatest Powere" actually lies within each and every one of us
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RevRandy . . .and that greatest power, as we have come to know, is not physical -- for it exists beyond our physical manifestation
fang . . .hi
RevRandy . . .hi fang
Elissa . . .hey fang :)
fang . . . sorry i'm late
Deni . . .hi fang :)
fang . . .i know demerits
* Elissa writes in her book: 1 demerit for lateness for fang (i think that brings the total up to about 5 million)
RevRandy . . .any other thoughts about what ED has said
fang . . .yep
Deni . . .special word for the night "Powere" which is french for power!
Elissa . . .hahahaha deni!
RevRandy . . .you forgot the accent grave
Elissa . . .deni you're so cultured and refinee :)
ATracy_in_FL . . .Rev ??Who worshiped the Sun and River
Elissa . . .ooops i mean rafinee
bluelight . . .i guess i'm having a hard time with the worship aspect .. i dont' think most people would claim to worship it so wondering if in olden days maybe they would answer similarly
RevRandy . . .The Egyptians worshiped both -- in different eras
Deni . . .lol Lissa
RevRandy . . .do we worship the electron, .... do we sit in front of the electronic altars for hours
bluelight . . .electricity i mean.. people would not say they worship it i dont' believe
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RevRandy . . .but they hold it in awe
bluelight . . .i know what u mean
WhiteTiger . . .many native american peoples worship the sun.. the germans went through a spell when the rhine was seen as a god aspect
bluelight . . .yes
RevRandy . . .the tribes along the Amazon speak of it like a god
RevRandy . . .or goddess
Elissa . . .hmmm... maybe "worship" means we look to it as a source of life
Elissa . . .what does worship mean to you all?
bluelight . . .we worship many things actually
ATracy_in_FL . . .Has anyone ever thought "The Sun could be God
bluelight . . .i think there is evidence the sun in disintegrating so dont' think it's God
RevRandy . . .The Sun as God was the message of Akhnaten, pharoah of Egypt
Elissa . . .but look at the trends, not the specifics... what is there about the sun that was worship-able? (yep i made that word up)
ATracy_in_FL . . .So Much Light and Energy thow??
Deni . . .power
Deni . . .energy
Elissa . . .power, good one
Elissa . . .energy, yes... what else
bluelight . . .warmth
Elissa . . .could we live without it? were we frightened when it "disappeared" at night or in the winter when it got cold?
bluelight . . .brings good things like flowers :D
Elissa . . .blue :)
ATracy_in_FL . . .is the Sun the closest Star to our earth or is it even a star
bluelight . . .could not survive without it!!
Deni . . .nope Elissa..we can't live without it
Elissa . . .it sustains us, then?
ATracy_in_FL . . .yes
TF88 . . .physically it sustains us
bluelight . . .partially sustains us .. we still need L oooo vE
Elissa . . .ok, then follow that trend with the other energy sources ED talked about
Deni . . .ohhhhhhhh blue speaks french as well!! Ohh lala
ATracy_in_FL . . .Are we to think of GOD as Light and Energy?????????
bluelight . . .hehe
Elissa . . .mais certainement!
RevRandy . . .or is thinking of god as light and energy trapping the notion of the divine into physical things
ATracy_in_FL . . .Could be
Deni . . .maybe Rev..but EVERYTHING is energy
Deni . . .thoughts are energy
bluelight . . .i don't think so RR.. i still think we separate
Deni . . .feelings are energy
WhiteTiger . . .seems to me that for most, worship amounts to power/control... the divine is invariably yer last (sometimes best) resort for controlling yer circumstances... it's where the *desperate* appeals go
ATracy_in_FL . . .NOT LIKE THE SUN
RevRandy . . .I think that there was something that people sensed in the sun (and the river and fire etc) which had to do with energy and mystery and awe
Elissa . . .interesting point, wt
RevRandy . . .but then they turned the mysterious and the awesome into physical notions of personality
RevRandy . . .but what I see in what ED spoke of was that we need to be mindful about what we choose to see as the center, the source
RevRandy . . .to look for the trends
RevRandy . . .and then we talked with BF
WhiteTiger . . .the patterns ;)
ATracy_in_FL . . .REV???Who is ED
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RevRandy . . .(ED are the initials of a spirit on the other side)
ATracy_in_FL . . .i see
RevRandy . . .just as BF are initials to denote a spirit on the other side (and no, not Ben Franklin)
RevRandy . . . 0,2BF:
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Hi.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Someone without definite boundaries between energy states is moving along the spiritual evolutionary path.
RevRandy . . . 0,2One way you know that you are getting closer to fulfillment is
RevRandy . . . 0,2that you sense the receipt of energy from many different sources and planes, not all understood.
RevRandy . . . 0,2When all you know is always understood,
RevRandy . . . 0,2you are firmly planted in the middle of a complexity level.
RevRandy . . . 0,2At first, you say, ‘Wow, where is this energy coming from' (first-timers).
RevRandy . . . 0,2Then, slowly, you figure the level out and there are fewer mysteries.

RevRandy . . . 0,2But then you begin to see some more unknowns, paradoxes, cundr... conunrdm... dang... puzzles.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And you realise that, no matter how much you apply your best thinking and knowing,
RevRandy . . . 0,2 0,2the understandings will escape you--and likewise.
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"You will find, when you are dead centre--or should I say, live centre--
RevRandy . . . 0,2you put your energies here in the place you are.
RevRandy . . . 0,2In the start, you didn't put them anywhere--scattered, unfocused, amorphous.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But with learning and remembering, you focused.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But then you learn how to direct the focus, and then even multiple foci, and then what appears as random.
RevRandy . . . 0,2People who are single- minded are at the centre.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Those who are clueless are at the depot having tea.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And those who seem eclectic... well, figure it out.
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . .(I want to stop here, mid-message, and look at what has been said so far ....)
RevRandy . . .BF is sharing some understandings about the way that energy is used by those of us at this level of spiritual development
RevRandy . . .And is making a case for seeing the evolution of a spirit at this level
RevRandy . . .in terms of energy use ...
RevRandy . . .when we don't have a clue how to focus our energies,
RevRandy . . .we are new at this physical/spiritual combination we call "life"
RevRandy . . .when we have the focusing part down to a science, and have it seem unified, then you are about mid way along the journey at this spiritual level
bluelight . . .down to a science?
RevRandy . . .and eventually we get to a point where we seem to be able to receive, take in, use, and give off multiple energies
Deni . . .what does that mean Rev?
RevRandy . . .yep - blue - down to a science .... as in the original use of the word, having to do with knowledge - or a way of knowing
TF88 . . .I know I often have a tendency to relate PtoP's to music, but I find this PtoP describes almost literally what the process of learning a complex piece of music is like.
RevRandy . . .what I meant by down to a science is that we make a single way of focusing energy (coming in, going out) a single path of knowing
WhiteTiger . . .first ya learn to talk and listen.. then ya learn to use a CB radio.. then ya can make some sense out of what comes in over a multichannel scanner
Elissa . . .wow tf, tell us more about that
Deni . . .thats it WT :)
TF88 . . .You open a big score you've never seen and start to plug away at it...
RevRandy . . .I think WT and TF are getting it
TF88 . . .you can tell there's a ton of mysterious stuff there, but can't yet make sense of it
TF88 . . .so you tackle this part and that part...
TF88 . . .and your own energy is so scattered you run out of steam by the time you get to that page over there
TF88 . . .literally, physically I mean
TF88 . . .and then you begin to make sense of how you can begin to fit things together
TF88 . . .and pace your energy to sort of bring it all together
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TF88 . . .then you apply all your knowledge and mastery
TF88 . . .and the energy of the piece is not just coming AT you..
TF88 . . .but you are participating with it...
TF88 . . .and then even though you have mastered it so well..
TF88 . . .you realize there is a level of understanding you simply will not be able to grasp until years down the road.
TF88 . . .did I spit it out coherently?
RevRandy . . .dang, that's a great analogy!!!!
bluelight . . .ok i understand what u mean now... great example TF
Elissa . . .what a wonderful analogy!
Deni . . .wonderful :)
TF88 . . .:)
bluelight . . .u forgot to add u're never totally satisfied ..
TF88 . . .right...satisfied temporarily
TF88 . . .but not completely
TF88 . . .yet excited about the process and what may come later
Elissa . . .and it could be applied to almost any type of learning, couldn't it
bluelight . . .yes
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bluelight . . .i LOVE examples !!!!!
RevRandy . . .TF - I think about those who years later took their own earlier compositions and created variations on their previously "mastered" themes
Elissa . . .me too lol
Deni . . .I like WhiteTigers example too
RevRandy . . .me too --- the same progression
TF88 . . .yes randy...or re-wrote, but with more wisdom and understanding
Elissa . . .yes, and i bet you guys are going to keep thinking of other ones now
bluelight . . .yes WT's good too
RevRandy . . .but BF then challenged us with this:
RevRandy . . . 0,2"So, here's a simple activity.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But first, a cravat... I think not... I mispoke... a caveat... ooooo...
RevRandy . . . 0,2as you do this exercise, remember that all outcomes are right.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And wherever you find yourself is ok,
RevRandy . . . 0,2because being in the infinitely middle place of an infinite process, what does it matter.
RevRandy . . . 0,2You will still have a path ahead.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Hey, why do so many of us get so competitive about getting through this level and moving on.
RevRandy . . . 0,2It is NOT A RACE!
RevRandy . . . 0,2Ok, exercise:
RevRandy . . . 0,2using whatever model, mode, materials you wish, chart, graph, draw, depict, describe
RevRandy . . . 0,2your sources of energy.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Then also draw, etc., etc., how energy flows from you... whence...
RevRandy . . . 0,2follow the energy and you will discover much.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Is it full of knowing,
RevRandy . . . 0,2full of questions,
RevRandy . . . 0,2full of certainty,
RevRandy . . . 0,2full of mystery,
RevRandy . . . 0,2full of wonder,
RevRandy . . . 0,2full of fear...
RevRandy . . . 0,2follow the energy and see where you are and are going.
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"The path to self-awareness can be questions like this.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Most people think of their lives as a series of places, time, and people.
RevRandy . . . 0,2It looks different when one thinks of it through the perspective of energy.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Ok, I go. Bye-bye,
RevRandy . . . 0,2ta-ta." (9/15/2000)
bluelight . . .no no dont' go :0
bluelight . . .lol
RevRandy . . .So, an exercise for you .... to form some kind of representation of how energy comes and goes, FOR YOU
WhiteTiger . . .kinda a null exercise for me... I don't "do" energy... to me energy is only one of many sorts of relationships within the field of concepts
* Elissa passes out the crayons and construction paper
RevRandy . . .so, WT, you use no energy?
bluelight . . .yippee the fun begins E
bluelight . . .what field of concepts WT?
RevRandy . . .OK - we will leave you all with this exercise while we take our 10pm (ET) break
WhiteTiger . . .not when I look past the energy concept to something deeper, RR... in that place are only concepts and relationships.. one sort is commonly called energy
RevRandy . . .we will be back in about 10 minutes to see what you have discovered about yourselves for yourselves
Elissa . . .everyone get to work, now... or not :)
RevRandy . . .and for one awesomely big point to ponder
Elissa . . .bbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkk
bluelight . . .i have an easier time understanding relationships if i can understand the energy going
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WhiteTiger . . .for me the energy is best understood through relationship of the concepts.. diff strokes, and all that ;)
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bluelight . . .but what do u mean by concepts WT?
bluelight . . .in other words i don't understand what u said
WhiteTiger . . .the raw idea of a thing... the concept without regard to any referent...
bluelight . . .maybe if u put tell me a situation as an example WT?
WhiteTiger . . .mmmm.. take energy for example... requires interval, difference, distinction between two or more places/energy states
WhiteTiger . . .can not distinguish what you have no concept for... if you lack the concept, then it simply is not in your wold
bluelight . . .more like TF did.. so i know what u're talking about ..
bluelight . . .woops left out part of my sentence
WhiteTiger . . .sorry... can't do that... it can only be done by analogy. The language lacks the terms to describe what I peceive
ATracy_in_FL . . .Energy
bluelight . . .never mind WT maybe others can understand .. or u don't wish to relate to some not sure which
mike . . .The mind is its own place, and of itself Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven
WhiteTiger . . .no reticence on my part, blue... I just can't say what there are no words for :(
bluelight . . .don't feel bad WT i guess u r just way ahead of me WT
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WhiteTiger . . .naw blue... I'm just too crazy to be rational ;)
Elissa . . .before we get started again, i have a couple of housekeeping thingies:
Elissa . . .first, if you have any topics you'd like covered here, let us know...
Elissa . . .and also if you'd like to be on our email list pm your address to me
RevRandy . . .So, did any of you make your models of your energy?
RevRandy . . .or have any insights from it
TF88 . . .well, I kind of did
bluelight . . .i missed this but would like to know how to do it
RevRandy . . .want to share
RevRandy . . .blue - it was the last part of the point from before
TF88 . . .I realized that the sources from where I draw energy are also the same places I put energy...I hadn't realized that before
RevRandy . . .what did that tell you .... anything
TF88 . . .All I did was start making a list, and then when I went to do the other list it was the same
TF88 . . .well, as long as I LIKE the things on my list, then I think it's a healthy exchange
RevRandy . . .sounds good to me
RevRandy . . .anyone else do the exercise?
RevRandy . . .If not, let's move on ... we have some deep thinking to do together
WhiteTiger . . .cool :)
RevRandy . . .the other person we talked to on friday was LD
Elissa . . .brain stretching lol
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bluelight . . .thanks RR i'll look it up
RevRandy . . .which we have been given to know is Leonardo DaVinci
RevRandy . . .So, here it is
RevRandy . . . 0,2LD:
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Hi. And the big question is:
RevRandy . . . 0,2Is there a conservation of matter and energy?
RevRandy . . . 0,2Yes, physical, and so there is an assumption that this is true in all things...
RevRandy . . . 0,2BUT nooo, human-breath.
RevRandy . . . 0,2By definition the universe is a bounded system, and so there is conservation.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But what about spiritual energy.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Ok, you probably won't get this: yes and no.
RevRandy . . . 0,2In one sense, there is conservation of spiritual energy--
RevRandy . . . 0,2in that the sum total at any set of realities is fixed;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and if there are parallel realities, each will have the same total of spiritual energy.
RevRandy . . . 0,2It's not like one has more than another;
RevRandy . . . 0,2but in each of them--which is an infinite number--
RevRandy . . . 0,2the energy distribution will be different.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And I don't mean just at one spiritual development level.
RevRandy . . . 0,2In one reality, much of it may be dispersed in slightly developed forms or entities of great profusion;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and in another reality, it may have only a slight presence in simplicity,
RevRandy . . . 0,2and great concentration in complex levels.
RevRandy . . . 0,2All expressions of the same potential spiritual energy.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Parallel realities are just representations of the infinite possibilities of energy distribution.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, that's the ‘yes.'
RevRandy . . . 0,2But what about the ‘no.'
RevRandy . . . 0,2
RevRandy . . .(are we all following so far??????)
WhiteTiger . . .yup
ATracy_in_FL . . .Trying
Sharon . . .yeppers
Sanantu . . .I'm just new in here, so I have to listen first a little bit
pamb . . .ok
TF88 . . .not particularly well, over here :)
Deni . . .me too....trying
RevRandy . . .we will come back to it promise
RevRandy . . . 0,2"In the progression of things (that's the tech term),
RevRandy . . . 0,2there can be an increase of spiritual energy as the whole of All That Is
RevRandy . . . 0,2continues to be dynamic and organic.
RevRandy . . . 0,2The whole continues to grow, enhance, etc.,
RevRandy . . . 0,2but in any particular is limited.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, yes and no.
RevRandy . . . 0,2It is always becoming more in spiritual energy,
RevRandy . . . 0,2and it is always finite in spiritual energy in specifics.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Understand? See, I told you so. Ponder this.
RevRandy . . . 0,2
WhiteTiger . . .lol
mm . . .i am sorry but i disagree with this
Elissa . . .:)
ATracy_in_FL . . .ok
RevRandy . . .Now, there will be more in a few minutes, but lets look at all of this first
RevRandy . . .how so, mm
Elissa . . .mm, disagreement is the spice of discussion :)
mm . . .as i strolled thru (real fast) conversation
mm . . .u spoke about egyptians and sun
Sanantu . . .is anyone so kind and tells me in a simple and short way what you are talking about, please?
WhiteTiger . . .seems pelucid to me... I wouldn't have put it in terms of "energy" but the parallels are direct
RevRandy . . .(energy Sanantu -- with ideas coming from conversations with people on the other side)
Sharon . . .this room is kinda like a lecture hall sanantu
Sanantu . . .I'm not native english speaking, so I need some time with all this words
Sharon . . .we discuss certain topics
mm . . .remember egytians had the sun
mm . . .because they did not know any other god
Sanantu . . .ok, thanks
Sanantu . . .can I just jump in?
mm . . .their worship was physical worship
mm . . .not inner worship, as we now know of the living god
mm . . .which in fact comes the inner energy
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WhiteTiger . . .Dudette :)
Elissa . . .hey hyper :)
Elissa . . .go on, mm
Deni . . .hiya Hyper
Hypernoodle . . .Hi TigerDude and Elissa :)
Hypernoodle . . .Hi Deni :)
Sanantu . . .Hi Hyper
Hypernoodle . . .Hi Sanantu
Hypernoodle . . .sorry mm :)
mm . . .yes the sun does give energy
mm . . .but is for the physical
mm . . .to keep all of it going, in order to survive
mm . . .but is not for the inner energy
Elissa . . .that is our understanding, mm... it was not theirs at that time
RevRandy . . .they did not see a separation
Sanantu . . .I don't agree that the Sun is only for the physical....if you are talking about the Sun in our Solar system, yes, but not the Great Central Sun..thats much more than physical
mm . . .ok
mm . . .i am talking about the solar sun
mm . . .that was my understanding
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Elissa . . .but you do make a good point, mm... it tells us about how our concept of our source has changed
RevRandy . . .and I think that ED was trying to suggest that our own sense of the empowerment of the inner being today may be as flawed as the assumption of our sun as a spiritual source has proven to be
Sanantu . . .ok...but are you sure that the people in the past were talking about the Solar Sun?...
WhiteTiger . . .yep.. concept is petty much the center of it, imo
TF88 . . .Randy thank you...what you just said is what I was struggling to get at with the ED PtoP
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Deni . . .hmmmmmmmmm
Elissa . . .they were talking about it, but its meaning was different to them, sanantu
RevRandy . . .As long as we use some form of physical representation of what is spiritual, it will always be flawed
WhiteTiger . . .I think "almost certainly is" is closer to the mark than "may be flawed", personally
RevRandy . . .see, WT, I think we agree on that
WhiteTiger . . .uh oh... where did I slip up? ;)
Elissa . . .deni, you hmmmmed?
Spike . . .hello yall
Sanantu . . .The whole creation is based on a Energy level...everything starts there...it's just a matter of speed from the molecules that you can see or not what is in the creation....so, what I feel is, that the people in Egypt knew exactly how to connect to THAT Energy field...called today GOD.
RevRandy . . .hi
Elissa . . .hi spike
Deni . . .I'm still hmmmmmmm-ing
Elissa . . .:)
Hypernoodle . . .I'm with you, Deni :)
RevRandy . . .I understand, I think, Sanantu .... but somewhere along the way the physical representation of God (the Sun) replaced the experiencing of that connection
* WhiteTiger hands deni a kazoo
Deni . . .lol WT~!
Elissa . . .lol
WhiteTiger . . .;)
Elissa . . .tf will provide the piano accompaniment
mm . . .remember while the egytians were worshiping the sun, there was another tribe of people
mm . . .who brought something more than the physical god
WhiteTiger . . .RR? was there more to come from LD?
mm . . .they brought us the living god
Sanantu . . .no, I don't think so, nothing was replaced, just wrong interpretation..from many that wanted to have power of it...take just an important part out, and people can't connect direct anymore.
mm . . .which is the inner god
Elissa . . .very interesting, sanantu
RevRandy . . .well, if I understand the LD piece (so far) all of these systems were concomitant expressions of the same energy field -- which, like any particular energy of any time, limited
mm . . .which have brought us to the present, by giving us the knowledge that their is more to this existence
Sanantu . . .so, the next step is, you need all the religions, churches..priests, books, courses etc...because the direct contact is hidden from very smart, powerful Spirits...not much in light!
TF88 . . .Haven't peoples pretty much always realized (or believed) that there is more to this existence?
mm . . .yeah
bluelight . . .that's what i'm wondering too
WhiteTiger . . .pretty much my take on it, RR... ya can measure voltage, or choose to engineer from the amperage standpoint, or combine them... each relationship within the field gives rise to others... hence the steady state/growth conundrum
RevRandy . . .and each era has had an answer to the "more" that they claimed was the ultimate answer, but which failed the test of time
* Elissa is impressed with wt's spelling of "conundrum"
RevRandy . . .well, here is the rest of LD's piece
Hypernoodle . . .lol
RevRandy . . . 0,2"And one more thingie.
RevRandy . . . 0,2If All That Is is not organic and developmental, etc.,
RevRandy . . . 0,2then it already has reached its own conclusion;
RevRandy . . . 0,2because with bounded spiritual energy,
RevRandy . . . 0,2then all the possible infinite sets of realities have already been.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, the whole must be dynamic or it has already ceased to be.
RevRandy . . . 0,2Capiche?
RevRandy . . . 0,2It's not your way of thinking.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But, if your little life was finite--without any dynamism--
RevRandy . . . 0,2then there would be no potential for development, and thus would be over before it started.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, too, with All That Is... duh." (9/15/2000)
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RevRandy . . .Now, this I find really provocative
Sanantu . . .look around, it's more confusion in this world then ever, because all the simple and direct connection is in the hands from some powerful Institutions..if they still remember.
WhiteTiger . . .provocative, but seems to me to be a logical fallacy involved... one of exclusion
RevRandy . . .The sum total of spiritual energy must be increasing, or else it is all completed, everything over, since all the possible combinations, all the possible parallel realities, would have already been
Deni . . .constant evolution
RevRandy . . .and evolution in a dynamically changing system, which is not finite, closed
Deni . . .or continuous might be better word
Sanantu . . .The spiritual Energy is ALLWAYS the same...it's just a matter of opening our self to this Energy field...and if we can 100% Then we transform...
Elissa . . .i'm thinking about tf's music example, and how when she begins to see more possibilities in the energy of a piece, more possibilities open up
Deni . . .I think spiritual energy transforms and changes just as physical energy transforms and changes
Elissa . . .(does that make sense, tf?)
bluelight . . .God is getting more and more God-like??? :0
RevRandy . . .but if it is always the same, then have not all the possible combinations and permutations already existed?
TF88 . . .yes Elissa
WhiteTiger . . .the real question is, does the system change, or do we? "there is no spoon" LOL
RevRandy . . .but WT, it doesn't matter, for we and the system are one
Sanantu . . .Pure Energy is pure Harmony...there is not more or bigger Harmony..it's just Harmony, Balance
mm . . .the system being?
Elissa . . .God grows and develops as we do
TF88 . . .there is more complex harmony
WhiteTiger . . .have to disagree on that one, RR... I may be a lugnut, but I ain't the cadillac ;)
RevRandy . . .more strands of the harmony
RevRandy . . .but the Cadillac could not be the Cadillac without the lugnuts
mm . . .in what ways is god growing,
bluelight . . .maybe God learns from us what not to do hehehehe
Elissa . . .hahaha blue
Elissa . . .i hope so
RevRandy . . .teehee Blue
Sanantu . . .what is GOD?
Deni . . .good one Blue!
Hypernoodle . . .the Cadillac would still be a Cadillac.....it just wouldn't roll along very well
Deni . . .Sanantu..that is the MILLION dollar question!
Elissa . . .kerplunk
RevRandy . . .run, thump, run, thump
mm . . .god is all and all is god, or all that is
bluelight . . .----- is God .. so watch out!!!
bluelight . . .lolol
RevRandy . . .(actually I had a car that ran like that! - where were you when I needed you WT)
WhiteTiger . . .didn't say was not involved in the cadillac... just said being involved does not make me the caddy, nor does my involvement make the caddy a lugnut... the caddy is a caddy, and happens to include the lugnut
mm . . .how is god growing?
TF88 . . .so god is sun ;)
Sanantu . . .haha, right but before that is not clear, how can we talk about it? How can we say anything about it if it's not clear for the single one in here?
Elissa . . .we cannot know the answer to that, sanantu... it's beyond our ability to conceptualize
Elissa . . .lol tf
mm . . .in spiritual sense
RevRandy . . .god is only a semantic expression of something that cannot be contained, bound, explained, or adequately expressed in finite systems of language
Sanantu . . .For me it's clear...but to understand the others in this room, I need to know what they feel is God...
Deni . . .Rev..I really like that!
bluelight . . .good point San .. i don't think i know anything now :0
Elissa . . .god is all that is and more
WhiteTiger . . .bingo RR ;) god is concept beyond language *G*
bluelight . . .i hope so E
bluelight . . .:0
Sanantu . . .maybe for you, for me it's clear what GOD is for ME...but how can anyone talk about GOD and say, that GOD is growing if you even don't know for yourself what GOD is? Get the point?*s*
RevRandy . . .I do not use the term "god" but I use the concept of all-that-is, which in itself is always becoming all-that-is and more
bluelight . . .WT God just IS
Elissa . . .yes, sanantu... we cannot know the nature of god totally, but we can come close to understanding some of the attributes of god....
Deni . . .everyone has their own "ideals" about what "god "is
Elissa . . .because they are our attributes as well
Sanantu . . .right....so, no need to talk about GOD as something outside us......it's all in us....
bluelight . . .many names for God .. what's in a name .. nottink
Hypernoodle . . .agreed, Deni
RevRandy . . .and we in it ... no dualisms here, please
TF88 . . .and some say god is Good Orderly Direction
mm . . .but in what ways is god growing,
bluelight . . .Sanatu that's what makes God confusing.. cuz we r so :0
WhiteTiger . . .exactly, bluelight... and is so much more than any of us that we have to look at it in chunks, if at all... hence, we need interval (time) and progression so we have opportunity to take it in bites we can chew
Sanantu . . .sure I know the nature of God...because I AM a part of it..you are...all are..so bring ALL this together, feel right into it with your Heart..and you feel what GOD is...FEEL, not THINK!
bluelight . . .---- is a confused god :000
RevRandy . . .god is pregnant ..... with potential new meaning as experienced by those who move in relation to the concept of god
mm . . .i agree 100% with sanantu
Elissa . . .mm, in terms of energy as all that is grows and develops in complexity, i think
TF88 . . .perhaps a better word for "growing" is "expanding"?
mm . . .that is better
RevRandy . . .enhancing?
mm . . .now i understand
Elissa . . .developing
Hypernoodle . . .So God created man not knowing what would happen?
Deni . . .yeah TF!!
TF88 . . .whew!
Elissa . . .mm :)
RevRandy . . .one of my favorite critters is the chambered nautilus ... which is itself no matter how many chambers it has developed ... it has an identity but it can also enhanced itself
Elissa . . .YES hyper!
bluelight . . .that's what i heard Hper .. surprised me too
Hypernoodle . . .Or he created man so he could live through man's experiences?
mm . . .that sounds good hyper
mm . . .that is why when we pass on we are as one?
Hypernoodle . . .kinda flies in the face of an omnipotent God huh?
Sanantu . . .it's like a huge Puzzle....bring ALL the parts together and you will more and more FEEL that you are part of this Great and wonderful Picture...called Creation..or GOD...
RevRandy . . .or human's created God so that human's could pretend to live through god's experience
WhiteTiger . . .shoots "omniscient" in the foot too, hyper
bluelight . . .ewwwwwwwww
Deni . . .lol Rev....Don't get me going !!
Elissa . . .hyper, that's a little too concrete i believe
RevRandy . . .go Deni, go
mm . . .i like the vice versa rr
Hypernoodle . . .Humans tend to be concrete :)
RevRandy . . .(only in New Jersey, in rivers)
WhiteTiger . . .especially above the shoulders ;)
pamb . . .:))
Elissa . . .true and that concreteness is what makes it so hard for us to understand god
Deni . . .I think that God as Religions speak of God was created by humans to help them experience their humaness and also so hihger religious figures could have alot of control!
Elissa . . .(that among a million other things lol)
Hypernoodle . . .And since he does not have a PA system that goes to all ears at once, it is a feeling in the "heart"
Hypernoodle . . .a very personal experience
RevRandy . . .remember that one of the first commandments of almost every religious tradition (and the one most quickly forgotten) is to not make any physical representations of god(s)
mm . . .i agree too with deni
pamb . . .go Deni :)
Sanantu . . .it's not a THINKING God...commonn, that would be really shortthinking to create so limited humans to watch them how they struggle! It's an evolution from a EnergyPower....
mm . . .but there is some truth to the god in religion
WhiteTiger . . .deni- you have seen the inside of a cathedral then, I take it? ;)
Deni . . .once or twice :)
RevRandy . . .watch it deni ...... I like my control .....oppppppppsssss
WhiteTiger . . .lol
Hypernoodle . . .lol
bluelight . . .RevR go on..
mm . . .good,nite to all
pamb . . .lol
RevRandy . . .lite mm
Elissa . . .the truth is there is truth in all perspectives... look for the trends, not the specifics
Hypernoodle . . .Night mm :)
bluelight . . .what point RR were u making? i got lost
RevRandy . . .ty Elissa
mm . . .god bless you
Elissa . . .yw :)
Sanantu . . .night mm*s*
RevRandy . . .was I making a point
Elissa . . .nite mm
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WhiteTiger . . .perzactly, Elissa... he info is in the patterns lol
Elissa . . .yep
Hypernoodle . . .and everyone sees different patterns :)
Hypernoodle . . .frame of reference
bluelight . . .the last thing u said about first commandments
Deni . . .yep Hyper
RevRandy . . .and the patterns are only hints of reality
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Elissa . . .hey nancy :)
Sanantu . . .I think it's not important at all how we called it...or where we stand in OUR own way....I think the only importand thing is, how will it affect us....is it warm and good in us, or do we feel we don't get enough energy for our daily life?
RevRandy . . .so, just a reminder, from LD
NancyM . . .{{{Elissa}}}
RevRandy . . . 0,2But, if your little life was finite--without any dynamism--
RevRandy . . . 0,2then there would be no potential for development, and thus would be over before it started.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, too, with All That Is... duh." (9/15/2000)
RevRandy . . .now there is a nugget to ponder ... without dynamic potential (change, growth, development, enhancement, etc)
RevRandy . . .it is all over in the moment it begins .. for us and for whatever the infinite may be.
NancyM . . .hmmmmmmmm
RevRandy . . .time for another kazoo, WT
Elissa . . .nancy is hmmmmming now
TF88 . . .lol
Deni . . .rofl
NancyM . . .hi {{{DENI}}}
bluelight . . .RR u really think we make up God
Elissa . . .we have a hmmmmming chorus
Hypernoodle . . .Maybe he brought a big supply :)
WhiteTiger . . .this of course assumes that the limitations we understand for this tiny slice of what is apply to all of it
Hypernoodle . . .and that is a BIG assumption
NancyM . . .hmmmmmmmm
* WhiteTiger passes out slide whistles, just for novelty
RevRandy . . .I think we make up the specific versions we call God .... which are represented by language, idols, churches, etc
Hypernoodle . . .thanks Tiger.....I like those lol
Elissa . . .i think he's trying to translate a bigger understanding into our terms so we can begin to get a glimpse of it, wt
Deni . . .I agree Rev
WhiteTiger . . .lol
Elissa . . .LD is very good at that
Sanantu . . .Yes, RR, thats what I think the same!
TF88 . . .closes the piano lid...will NOT accompany slide whistles
bluelight . . .i realize that RR .. but u think we make up the existence also?
WhiteTiger . . .lol
Deni . . .rofl TF!!!
NancyM . . .ROFL TF
TF88 . . .;)
Hypernoodle . . .well, move over TF.....I have accompanied worse lol
bluelight . . .tf so funny hehe
WhiteTiger . . .rofl
NancyM . . .lol
Elissa . . .lolol
RevRandy . . .I don't know if we make it up, or not .... I just experience the existence and try to find meaning in what I experience .. beyond that is all make believe for me
Elissa . . .well, guys, on that NOTE :)
Deni . . .I think the existence of God is real...I think we as humans struggle with the definitions of God
RevRandy . . .wait. time to get out my accordion
Hypernoodle . . .lol
TF88 . . .hahaha
NancyM . . .rofplmao
Hypernoodle . . .Wish I had my flute here
Elissa . . .thank you all SO MUCH for your contributions to this fascinating discussion tonight!!!!!
Sanantu . . .I play piano, any use for it?
bluelight . . .just when ya'll start hamming i'm still deep in thot
* NancyM hands hyper her old flute
RevRandy . . .well, in fine fashion, we have reached the end of our time together .....
Hypernoodle . . .oooo.....thanks NancyM :)
Elissa . . .and now it's time to play the rainbow song and wish you all a wonderful week!
bluelight . . .not blue
RevRandy . . .thanks for all the energy
bluelight . . .blue not reached end :0
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa . . . 2,13!Elissa rainbow.mid 13,2 :o)
TF88 . . .thank you randy and Elissa
Deni . . .it was a very provocative discussion tonight :)
RevRandy . . .many ends
Elissa . . .it sure was!
bluelight . . .thanks Randy and lissa/rickitty
Sanantu . . .thanks very much RR...and all the others? Love and Sunpower on your way!*s*
Hypernoodle . . .certainly interesting ....... the part I was here for anyway :)
* WhiteTiger puts in a bid to hear more from LD
Deni . . .thanks rev, Lissa , Rikkity, Ed, and Ld
Elissa . . .wt will fill you in, hyper
RevRandy . . .y'all are most welcome -- and thank you all
NancyM . . .We just got home from, kiddos BD party.. Elissa MAY I have the Log ???
Elissa . . .wt, there's more on our site... and more will come
TF88 . . .Randy?
TF88 . . .do you know who BF is?
RevRandy . . .yes
Elissa . . .sure, nancy
WhiteTiger . . .by any chance, you got anything from tesla?
RevRandy . . .we only know that he is British
TF88 . . .thank you
Hypernoodle . . .tesla is interesting
RevRandy . . .and that BF are not his real initials
* WhiteTiger likes folks who think outside the box
RevRandy . . .Randy likes cats who use the box
Hypernoodle . . .lol......you should like me then Tiger
Deni . . .now Rev..why would a spirit not give his real initials?
NancyM . . .: }
WhiteTiger . . .I'm here, ain't I, hyper? *G*
RevRandy . . .long story deni,,, and we are sworn to secrecy
RevRandy . . .night all
Elissa . . .some spirits have a more amorphous identity, deni
* Hypernoodle likes cats who don't have lots of kittens
*** RevRandy has quit IRC (QUIT: Leaving )
NancyM . . .peace REV
Deni . . .ok..gotcha
Deni . . .night everyone
Sanantu . . .night RR...Love and Light with you!*s*
TF88 . . .night deni
Elissa . . .goodnight everyone and love to all of you
TF88 . . .night everyone :)
Hypernoodle . . .Looks like ya'll wore RR out tonight
NancyM . . .G'nite Deni
bluelight . . .nite nite elissa! :D
Hypernoodle . . .night all :)
WhiteTiger . . .nite elissa, same to RR ;)
NancyM . . .lovin U elissa
bluelight . . .nite all :D
Session Close: Sun Sep 17 23:06:43 2000