08/20/2000 - UNITY VS. PSEUDO-UNITY

Session Start: Sun Aug 20 20:46:53 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Unity vs Pseudo-Unity" 2,9Sunday 2,11August 20 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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Elissa . . . randy and i have a question to ask you all (rikkity put us up to it, of course lol)
RevRandy . . . and that question would be?
Elissa . . . the question is what topics would you like to see covered here in the future
TF88 . . . I would like to discuss more about time
Elissa . . . and we'll ask it again in an hour
Elissa . . . ok
RevRandy . . . sorry, TF, we don't have time for that
RevRandy . . . (just kidding)
TF88 . . . :P
Elissa . . . anything in particular about time?
TF88 . . . yes...
TF88 . . . I would like to better understand how past, present and future can exist simultaneously
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RevRandy . . . hello WT
WhiteTiger . . . RR :)
RevRandy . . . TF - that sounds like a good one!
TF88 . . . :)
Elissa . . . hey tiger dude :)
WhiteTiger . . . Elissa :)
Elissa . . . yep, good one tf
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RevRandy . . . and hyper too ---
Hypernoodle . . . Hi RR :)
Elissa . . . hey hyperdudette :)
Hypernoodle . . . HI Elissa :)
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Elissa . . . so the question for those of you who missed it is: what topics would you like to seecovered here in the future?
RevRandy . . . and remember to phrase it in the form of a question
Hypernoodle . . . oooo.....questions!
WhiteTiger . . . ya been doing fine so far, elissa
fang . . . opps fang missed the question,,,, brain burp lol
RevRandy . . . we have been told (by powers beyond the physical realm) to ask
TF88 . . . evading the question hyper? LOL
Hypernoodle . . . nope
RevRandy . . . and we just meekly follow
TF88 . . . oops, WT
Hypernoodle . . . trying to figure out how to phrase it
RevRandy . . . phrase it any way you want
fang . . . i want to know how to tune in better
Hypernoodle . . . here is my question :)
RevRandy . . . OK -
Elissa . . . thanks, wt :)
* WhiteTiger looks around for the meek type, don't find one
Hypernoodle . . . Why can't ego and materialism be left out of oneness?
Elissa . . . you guys are making me feel happy
RevRandy . . . hmmmmm
fang . . . because we're physical
fang . . . lol
RevRandy . . . good ?
Hypernoodle . . . I didn't think you were going to answer it tonight!
Hypernoodle . . . I thought it was for the future
Elissa . . . is that a question or a topic
RevRandy . . . no -- for future
Hypernoodle . . . hmmmm....is that ....."the future is now"
Elissa . . . o ok, cool
WhiteTiger . . . oneness transcends physical, though... sorta has to, by default
Hypernoodle . . . It should, Tiger
Hypernoodle . . . It does not as I see
Elissa . . . i don't understand it but i like it lol
fang . . . wt is teaching me lol
fang . . . nice to see ya wt
WhiteTiger . . . then it ain't oneness yet, imo
RevRandy . . . well, I think it is time to start
Elissa . . . yep
Hypernoodle . . . that is right TigerDude
TF88 . . . um, are you suing the word "oneness" as in "connectedness"?
TF88 . . . sheesh...that's using, not suing
Elissa . . . lol
fang . . . lol
Hypernoodle . . . even more than that I think
Hypernoodle . . . being one
Elissa . . . litigious are we?
fang . . . rr has fumble fingers tonight ;)
Hypernoodle . . . teachers don't like that sue word
WhiteTiger . . . was gonna look for that lawyer and get in some pre-retirement target practice ;)
RevRandy . . . moi?
Elissa . . . ok RR, let's begin?
RevRandy . . . ok begin
TF88 . . . my brain is a bit fried this week...typos are being unleashed
Hypernoodle . . . smiling and listening :)
RevRandy . . . Welcome
Elissa . . . lol
RevRandy . . . Bienvenue
fang . . . ok no cursing lol
RevRandy . . . Gutten Abend
fang . . . german?
Hypernoodle . . . Howdy
WhiteTiger . . . and a hearty sego to you too
Elissa . . . lol fang
RevRandy . . . We are glad you are all here for SP ---
Elissa . . . yo dude
RevRandy . . . I look around the room to see all the newbies
fang . . . newbies? where?
Elissa . . . they're all late
Hypernoodle . . . Did ya see any?
RevRandy . . . can't see any
WhiteTiger . . . lol
RevRandy . . . so that means that Elissa does not need to run the story of SP
Elissa . . . yay
RevRandy . . . of how it all started in a small mining town in Colorado
RevRandy . . . with a little girl, her beloved sled, "Rosebud"
Elissa . . . huh
Elissa . . . ah yes, rosebud
WhiteTiger . . . in a log cabin with outdoor plumbing?
RevRandy . . . and all else that followed --- but she won't have to run that history of SP tonight
RevRandy . . . no in an outdoor cabinet made of plumbing
fang . . . i hated out door plumbing
Elissa . . . think it's time for that stiff yet stylish jacket for RR, wt :)
fang . . . bugs, smell, bleech
Hypernoodle . . . Who is Rosebud?
RevRandy . . . I can't move my arms ....... I need help
* Hypernoodle was at the washing machine
fang . . . the sled?
* WhiteTiger slips RR a houdini pick on the sly
RevRandy . . . ty
Elissa . . . too much starch
RevRandy . . . anymoo,
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fang . . . ;)
WhiteTiger . . . you needed help way before then, R ;)
Hypernoodle . . . hehehe....I used to do that to my ex, Elissa :)
RevRandy . . . let's open with our invocation
fang . . . welcome taz
Elissa . . . lol hyper
WhiteTiger . . . hiya taz
Elissa . . . hey taz
RevRandy . . . so, please join in the spirit of this words of invocation:
taz . . . hi
RevRandy . . . May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy . . . Protected from all things evil
RevRandy . . . and guided in all ways gracious. Namaste
Elissa . . . amen~
TF88 . . . Peace
WhiteTiger . . . aho
Hypernoodle . . . :)
fang . . . amen
RevRandy . . . this past week we had two conversations with Rikkity that were directed toward the content of this evening's chat
RevRandy . . . here is some of what Rikkity said to us
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Unity versus pseudo-unity.
RevRandy . . . 0,2If you have limits to your vision of connection, then it's pseudo...
RevRandy . . . 0,2like something can't be very unique.
RevRandy . . . 0,2It is either unity or not." (8/15/2000)
RevRandy . . . OK - a bit on the brief side, but enough to get us thinking ...
RevRandy . . . and it posed a concept of unity and its "shadow" side, perhaps, of something called pseudo-unity
RevRandy . . . and the concept of having limits on one's vision of connection.
RevRandy . . . and then later in the week, more came
WhiteTiger . . . lol... another one I have to agree with, darn it
RevRandy . . . 0,2"There is always a greater unity available than is evident,
RevRandy . . . 0,2until we reach ultimate oneness with All That Is.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, whenever anyone speaks of division or separation or difference,
RevRandy . . . 0,2they are connecting themselves to the past--the lesser.
RevRandy . . . 0,2A view of life without a glimpse of future and more inclusive models is always a sign of backward looking.
RevRandy . . . 0,2True, those who look forward cannot always give details or proof,
RevRandy . . . 0,2but in time they will show.
RevRandy . . . 0,2What is proven and shown is past.
RevRandy . . . 0,2"So, when a dreamer speaks of vision of unity and can't give all the details, that's how it should be;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and if they can give all the details, it's not a vision of the future.
RevRandy . . . 0,2In order to find the unity we don't know yet, we have to be willing to enter the mystery.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, that's it." (8/18/2000)
RevRandy . . . Hmmm
RevRandy . . . always a greater unity
RevRandy . . . lesser visions are of the past
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RevRandy . . . the greater unity is not always given in details or proofs
fang . . . i don't feel my past was lesser???
fang . . . hi tlc
TLCafazzo . . . hi fang
fang . . . fang apologizes for being opinionated ;)
TF88 . . . lesser means less full, I think
RevRandy . . . in this context, fang, is about lesser in terms of a lesser vision of unity, not in some qualitative way
TF88 . . . not a judgment
WhiteTiger . . . fang- you have not added experience, feeling and other inputs to who you are and what you know each day?
Elissa . . . lesser in terms of the learning you've done since then perhaps
fang . . . k
Elissa . . . we like opinionated here, fang... you know that lol
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RevRandy . . . hello anchor
Hypernoodle . . . that is good :)
Elissa . . . :)
Hypernoodle . . . Hi anchor :)
RevRandy . . . and I would like to unpack some of these concepts one by one
anchor . . . Hi. this is a first for me in a chat room. I'll just sit and watch.
Elissa . . . o goodie... randy does unpack well :)
RevRandy . . . 0,2"There is always a greater unity available than is evident,
RevRandy . . . 0,2until we reach ultimate oneness with All That Is.
Hypernoodle . . . This is a good one to watch I think
Elissa . . . hi anchor, you're welcome to watch or join in if you feel like it
RevRandy . . . This seemingly simple statement has a punch to it
RevRandy . . . because it is speaking about the evolutionary process of spirit,
RevRandy . . . and that what is already evident is given up in that evolution, but built upon
RevRandy . . . with materials we do not yet even see.
RevRandy . . . There is also a recognition that as much as we may think we "know it all" or "have seen it all", there is still more light to break
RevRandy . . . and as we look for and identify with what is not yet, we join into the process of moving toward more complete union with all.
Hypernoodle . . . RR & Elissa.....may I ask a question about something you keep posting?
RevRandy . . . sure - go for it
Elissa . . . sure
Hypernoodle . . . How do you define "all"?
RevRandy . . . are you referring to All-that-is?
Hypernoodle . . . yes
Hypernoodle . . . and in the post "union with all"
RevRandy . . . This is a term that rikkity uses as a way to refer to what many might call God
RevRandy . . . a sense of the totality of all existence
Elissa . . . it what is known and yet to be known, and what is and is yet to be
Elissa . . . All That Is is Rikkity's name for God
Hypernoodle . . . So is it still limited to this time/place/space in this usage?
Elissa . . . although she does use God as well
RevRandy . . . union with all, as I used it, meant that there come a point in spiritual evolution in which that which is ultimate and that which is less than ultimate are no longer separate
Elissa . . . no, i think it's meant to mean the evolving infinite
RevRandy . . . it is not intended, as far as I can tell, to be limited to any time, place, space.
Hypernoodle . . . thanks
Elissa . . . but you'd have to ask Rikkity :)
TF88 . . . question?
RevRandy . . . Yes
Elissa . . . yes tf
Hypernoodle . . . believe it or not, elissa....I have....several times
TF88 . . . does not unity already exist, but we are striving toward recognizing it?
Elissa . . . what happened?
RevRandy . . . aha TF
Hypernoodle . . . That all definitions are not seen from the same perspective
TF88 . . . and it is our individual vision of unity that becomes greater through experience
Elissa . . . ooooo i like that, hyper
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Hypernoodle . . . I like her
RevRandy . . . hello suwan
Hypernoodle . . . HI suwan :)
suwan . . . Hi everyone
WhiteTiger . . . re suwan
TF88 . . . hi suwan :)
RevRandy . . . TF - it is my sense that we all exist in that oneness already, that unity, but are learning to participate in it fully
TF88 . . . yes, that is a good way to phrase it
TF88 . . . participate in it fully
Elissa . . . tf, we exist in the oneness but if it is always evolving... ?
Hypernoodle . . . well, my first disagreement of the night ..... I think
Elissa . . . yay
RevRandy . . . the process is dynamic
RevRandy . . . how so hyper
Hypernoodle . . . lol....depends on the definition of oneness
Hypernoodle . . . I agree if it means we are all part of the same ball of wax
Hypernoodle . . . I disagree if it means that we all are experiencing oneness
Elissa . . . not the same oneness
RevRandy . . . that experience of oneness with all is the goal that is sought, all the harder because as Elissa says, that oneness is also changing, growing, becoming
Hypernoodle . . . I agree with that
RevRandy . . . let's go on with what Rikkity said:
Elissa . . . i don't think it makes it harder, it's just the way the universe works
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, whenever anyone speaks of division or separation or difference,
RevRandy . . . 0,2they are connecting themselves to the past--the lesser.
RevRandy . . . notions of something less than oneness , or connection, or involvement, or participation
RevRandy . . . speak to seeing all creation, all existence, as separated, not as connected
WhiteTiger . . . have to disagree with that... from where the folks on this dirt ball are, there are infinite divisions and levels of separation that are advancements
RevRandy . . . what do you think?
Elissa . . . how so, wt?
TF88 . . . might I try my hand at an analogy? regarding oneness
Elissa . . . go for it, tf
TF88 . . . person A is one with the loaf of bread in his hand and experiences that oneness because he's holding the loaf
TF88 . . . person B is holding a loaf of bread also, and is equally connected with it...
TF88 . . . but participates more fully in the experience...
TF88 . . . because he sees that the dirt of the earth grew the wheat
TF88 . . . the sun shined on it
TF88 . . . the rain assisted
WhiteTiger . . . well, first step would be for two individuals in the human race to find complete oneness... they still remain separate and divided from the rest of the race.. and unless they see and think of this, that separation can never be healed
TF88 . . . and a person cut and gathered the wheat
TF88 . . . etc.
TF88 . . . both are connected but one experiences the oneness more fully
WhiteTiger . . . so... addressing and considering separation is not a thing of the past necessarily... it can be the door to the future
Elissa . . . (hang on , wt... we'll get back to that after tf's thoughts)
RevRandy . . . I like the analogy TF
WhiteTiger . . . sorry... wasn't watching the screen... apologies tf
Elissa . . . so tf, it sounds to me like you're talking about levels of awareness
RevRandy . . . but would add that just as person B gets a wider notion, there needs to be an understanding that B also only has a part of the picture
TF88 . . . well, awareness in seeing and experiencing connectedness
TF88 . . . yes, there is more for B to come to realize
TF88 . . . and B is also not better than A
Hypernoodle . . . I have often felt that Nikki and I share a big part of oneness......but we are separate also.....two individuals
Elissa . . . just because person A didn't have the same awareness doesn't exclude A from being part of the oneness
WhiteTiger . . . lol... sounds to me like that "this I know now, there is more to know later" idea is an admission of boundary and division...
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Elissa . . . hey t_kahle :)
t_kahle . . . HEY THERE
RevRandy . . . or, of a flow from more divided toward less divided

Hypernoodle . . . lol....the funny thing is that I do not disagree with Rikkity
WhiteTiger . . . good one, RR... aggregation ;)
RevRandy . . . don't division always admit to judging things by what is already known, not what is possible?
Hypernoodle . . . ?
RevRandy . . . 0,2A view of life without a glimpse of future and more inclusive models is always a sign of backward looking.
RevRandy . . . 0,2True, those who look forward cannot always give details or proof,
RevRandy . . . 0,2but in time they will show.
RevRandy . . . 0,2What is proven and shown is past.
TF88 . . . I love that part
Elissa . . . i think i see the problem here... a perception of separation or difference and whether that means actual separation or a lack of awareness of the connection?
RevRandy . . . What is proven and shown (which usually means divisions, separation,) is past
Elissa . . . is that it?
Elissa . . . i love that part too
WhiteTiger . . . i have a bit of a prob with the whole forward/backward notion... is based in interval (ie-time) which is in itself a separator and divider
Elissa . . . i sure don't have a lot of details lol
RevRandy . . . that may be it Elissa -- or I wonder if there is also a perception that this creates another dualism
Elissa . . . wt we have to use the words we have... for now anyway lol
RevRandy . . . WT - I don't read "past" in a time sense -- but that is because Rikkity actually says that in another PtoP
Hypernoodle . . . Have you ever just looked at what Rikkity says without trying to interpret?
RevRandy . . . about "past" not meaning time, but level of developmental complexity
WhiteTiger . . . ooooo.... zinge from the pasta ;)
Elissa . . . o yes, hyper! i do that all the time when i don't understand it
TF88 . . . maybe past means "accomplished" and future "yet to be accomplished"
RevRandy . . . That is the sense I think she is using it.
Hypernoodle . . . I love what she has to say and do not get confused until the interpretations enter in
Hypernoodle . . . just wondered about that
RevRandy . . . trying to abstract into out linear terms things that are beyond that thinking
TF88 . . . that's why we have these discussions...to share our interpretations
RevRandy . . . well, then -
Elissa . . . ok, well she has told us that these points mean whatever they mean to those who read them... there's no "right" interpretation...
RevRandy . . . 0,2"So, when a dreamer speaks of vision of unity and can't give all the details, that's how it should be;
RevRandy . . . 0,2and if they can give all the details, it's not a vision of the future.
RevRandy . . . 0,2In order to find the unity we don't know yet, we have to be willing to enter the mystery.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So, that's it." (8/18/2000)
Hypernoodle . . . true enough :)
RevRandy . . . what do y'all see here for yourselves?
Elissa . . . right, tf :)
Hypernoodle . . . nm....tiger just explained my problem to me lol
Elissa . . . and that's what we do here... try to enter the mystery...
Elissa . . . you can tell that by all the typs... very mysterious indeed lol
RevRandy . . . good going tiger ...
Elissa . . . typos
Hypernoodle . . . lol Elissa
TF88 . . . I find that thought about "details" quite inspirational in that it helps me feel courageous about moving forward despite not being able to explain precisely how I will
RevRandy . . . well, let me toss another PtoP into the pot for consideration, on the same theme
Elissa . . . hyper, you're so lucky to have someone who can do that FOR you ;)
WhiteTiger . . . lol... the mystery breeds the typos, not vice versa... almost everyone loses the written language skills to some extent as they step into the ozone
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Now about this time thing. It ain't a thing.
RevRandy . . . 0,2It's a way to let brains that don't process instantaneously to get it.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But when it's all said and done chronology isn't what it's cracked up to be;
RevRandy . . . 0,2but the strands of one's existence are, like sands in the hourglass
RevRandy . . . 0,2...no, not the Days of Our Lives...
RevRandy . . . 0,2the life of our days.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And over time you forget time but remember the essences.
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Easy things are from the past.
RevRandy . . . 0,2To get to the future is always hard work and hard to explain,
RevRandy . . . 0,2but once you get there they seem easy.
RevRandy . . . 0,2The future will always be more surprising than predictable.
RevRandy . . . 0,2In the strands, you don't know what came before so you can't predict what comes after.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And if you do you focus on your assumption of strands, which is based on past knowledge.
RevRandy . . . 0,2But hey, things change; and you don't know when and how until they do."
RevRandy . . . 0,2(1/5/98 - B#19)
Hypernoodle . . . Tiger! That is it! The second line up there! :)
Hypernoodle . . . Thank you, rikkity!
RevRandy . . . which line?
Hypernoodle . . . brains processing instantaneously
RevRandy . . . aha
Hypernoodle . . . That is the difference in what I remember of before and here
Elissa . . . ah yes
Hypernoodle . . . I now love Rikkity! lol
RevRandy . . . time .... just nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once
Elissa . . . awesome! lol
WhiteTiger . . . instantly or instantaneously, hyper? the two words mean different things
Hypernoodle . . . it is what is in another is the same as in me at the same time
Hypernoodle . . . Nikki and I and how we communicate
RevRandy . . . convergence and simultaneity
WhiteTiger . . . lol... more like no "lines in the sand" holding either of you apart from the other
Hypernoodle . . . I am sitting here with tears because finally someone said the words I have been trying to say for about 45 years :)
RevRandy . . . but I sense in Rikkity a test - a way of sensing whether we are just restating the known or moving into new territory
Elissa . . . connected, but not the same
Elissa . . . ((((((hyper))))))
Hypernoodle . . . thanks :)
Elissa . . . a sacred moment indeed
RevRandy . . . awesome!!!!!
WhiteTiger . . . "love is the inclusion of another within ones own sense of self"
Hypernoodle . . . but it is our oneness, Tiger
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Elissa . . . i like that, wt... it speaks to our connections into entities
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RevRandy . . . with that awesome note, we have reached the mid-point of tonight's presentation, and time for our break
Hypernoodle . . . the oneness was first
Elissa . . . ((((((marie)))))) wow! long time!
TF88 . . . hi marie
Hypernoodle . . . Hi amy, Marie1 and Pinky
WhiteTiger . . . ya... ya tend to be kinda bass ackwards, hyper ;)
Elissa . . . hi pinky
RevRandy . . . so, we will be back in about 10 minutes for the second half --- more Spiritual Persistence on the same theme
Elissa . . . bbbbbbbrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkk
RevRandy . . . hi all --- good time for some informal chatting
Pinky . . . hi
RevRandy . . . and if you need prompting, here's some chat material
RevRandy . . . 0,2"Don't reduce your visions to words.
RevRandy . . . 0,2One of the problems of many people is they feel they have to put words to insights, visions, and feelings.
RevRandy . . . 0,2And if they do, they reduce the insights, visions, and feelings to words and lose something in the translation.
RevRandy . . . 0,2So maybe they should be tools, not answers." (5/13/98 - Y#25)
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*** RevRandy is now known as RevRandybbr
TF88-brb . . . thank you randy...a good reminder
Hypernoodle . . . bbr?
RevRandybbr . . . be back righto
Hypernoodle . . . lolol
Hypernoodle . . . cool
WhiteTiger . . . quick footwork R ;)
Hypernoodle . . . lol
WhiteTiger . . . I think the problem in that post is a bit misstated... folks tend to confuse the tag with the thing... the vision need not be lost in attempting to put words to it, long as ya remember that "the map is not the territory"
Marie1 . . . interesting point
WhiteTiger . . . no one confuses a pic of a car with the thing they drive... same diff between the vision and it's description
Marie1 . . . we are a verbalize society, so that is where the need to word everything comes into play
Marie1 . . . perhaps it is the description of what driving that car was like...that translation gets added to, and reconstruct in a way that suits the eye
WhiteTiger . . . lol... in the absence of functioning oneness, but given the drive toward it, language is a fine intermediate tool for being "not alone" as best we can
TF88 . . . I think perhaps that is something like trying to find words to describe a piece of music...something is definitely lost in the translation
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WhiteTiger . . . then the translator needs to study some more, imo ;)
Marie1 . . . that is true
RevRandy . . . I focus on the part about "they feel they have to ..."
RevRandy . . . this compulsion many feel to have to justify or prove what they have experienced
TF88 . . . well, for example, I labored over writing a dissertation that described the 2 Rachmaninoff suites...
Marie1 . . . but we forget that being together, in presence has a weight of words unspoken....it can't be replicated
RevRandy . . . as if verbalising is the only way to do that
WhiteTiger . . . sure RR... that is this particular stages ready means of reaching to span the gap between one and another
RevRandy . . . how did it come out, TF?
TF88 . . . It took me 100 pages to try to describe when I could play the pieces and explain it all through it's original medium
TF88 . . . and definitely something is lost in the translation
TF88 . . . it turned out great randy...however, I suggest you listen to me play it rather than read the silly paper
WhiteTiger . . . lol tf
RevRandy . . . got it!
TF88 . . . :)
RevRandy . . . And notice that the PtoP ends with the idea of using the words of description only as tools, not answers
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RevRandy . . . but so quickly we assume that the words hold the experience
WhiteTiger . . . ahhhhhh... but tools for *what*, RR?
RevRandy . . . tools for understanding, connecting experience to experience
RevRandy . . . welcome back, everyone, from the break ......
RevRandy . . . if you broke, that is
RevRandy . . . otherwise, just welcome
* WhiteTiger submits that the proper use of those tools is personal, and is a matter of achieving better understanding of self
RevRandy . . . and before we begin our second half,
RevRandy . . . I want to reiterate the question we posed in the beginning --
Elissa . . . it's ALL personal
RevRandy . . . are there any topics or issues you would like to have addressed here in an SP session?
Elissa . . . but don't take that personally lol
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WhiteTiger . . . ain't it just, Elissa? ;)
Elissa . . . absolutely :) and that's the only absolute there is
TF88 . . . there is another topic I would like to discuss sometime...judging.
Elissa . . . good one, tf
RevRandy . . . thanks TF
RevRandy . . . of course, if you don't have an idea about topics now, and then come Tuesday at 3pm one comes to you, just email us
WhiteTiger . . . we can segue to that topic from anything that is likely to come up here, tf... (imo)
RevRandy . . . and with that said, I will turn the podium over to my cohort in crime and mayhem and spiritual persistence, Elissa
Elissa . . . hahaha
RevRandy . . . heeeheeee
TF88 . . . ROFL
Elissa . . . ok, kiddies, Rikkity told me to tell you about a vision of unity i had a couple of years ago
* WhiteTiger wonders what use Elissa will have for an upside down podium?
Hypernoodle . . . lol
Elissa . . . so settle down and listen ssssshhhhhhhhhhhh
Elissa . . . wanna hear it?
WhiteTiger . . . --- being good
Hypernoodle . . . yep
Elissa . . . ok then :)
Elissa . . . it was the day before my birthday, July 19, 1998...
Elissa . . . we were on a long ferry ride to Ocracoke Island--the southernmost
Elissa . . . tip of the Outer Banks of North Carolina...
Elissa . . . it was a beautiful
Elissa . . . sunny day, sun glinting on the water, boat, very mellow, almost
Elissa . . . hypnotic feeling...
Elissa . . . i was in a meditative state, and then...
Elissa . . . what i saw was a vision of pure energy...
Elissa . . . first, like a vortex of energy that was quite large and sparkling...
Elissa . . . and i knew it represented spiritual awakening-type energy,
Elissa . . . because i had been thinking about that during the day...
Elissa . . . then there was also a smaller vortex of energy, which represented
Elissa . . . people who want to go backwards in some way...
Elissa . . . like
Elissa . . . fundamentalists, and also rationalists and nonbelievers, humanists,
Elissa . . . etc...
Elissa . . . then i saw the smaller energy pulling back...
Elissa . . . and then
Elissa . . . i saw it moving into the larger energy with tremendous force...
Elissa . . . and then i saw the energy spreading out over the whole world
Elissa . . . in a golden, glimmering light...
Elissa . . . and i saw that this would be
Elissa . . . the beginning of a new "Golden Age" or renaissance...
Elissa . . . and there was more in words and pictures, but i don't remember
Elissa . . . all of it...
Elissa . . . and Rikkity told me later that i had been in direct
Elissa . . . connection with the universe.
Elissa . . . what i felt later was absolute ecstasy, joy, amazement, and hope
Elissa . . . for the future...
Elissa . . . also a little frustration, because i knew i'd
Elissa . . . never be able to recapture that experience--neither in words
Elissa . . . nor in feelings...
Elissa . . . but i knew that my perception of the future
Elissa . . . had been widened, and that somehow that would affect how i
Elissa . . . interacted with the world...
Elissa . . . i felt an enhanced appreciation and
Elissa . . . respect for how each of us is an essential part of what is to come--
Elissa . . . even those who i might be tempted to think of as "out of it" :)
Elissa . . . and i would like to hear from you your response to this, but also your own experiences of sensing unity
Marie1 . . . that is a wonderful experience
Elissa . . . it was, marie
Hypernoodle . . . Why is it that you feel you can't recapture that feeling, Elissa?
Marie1 . . . ...each feeling we have at the time we have it is unique and can not be replicated from moment to moment...we may feel something similar that it but not the exact same feeling.
Hypernoodle . . . interesting Marie :)
Elissa . . . hyper, i think perhaps it has become part of who i am... that feeling and experience were connected and can't be repeated, but i don't need them to be
Hypernoodle . . . So it is within you now? Living in you?
Elissa . . . lol marie, i was thinking "replicated" when i typed "repeated"
Marie1 . . . lol :)
Elissa . . . living in me, yes... that's a beautiful way to put it
Hypernoodle . . . so it is another piece of the future you see that has become a part of this reality?
Elissa . . . living and growing new thoughts and feelings
Marie1 . . . i used to have a habit of trying to get people to repeat a feeling expressed towards me...fortunately, life allows us to grow..and i did.
Elissa . . . already but not yet, hyper
RevRandy . . . I also think I need to recognize that in learning and remembering, it is not about having the same pleasurable experience over and over, but growing through one to another that would not be possible without the first
Elissa . . . insightful, marie
Hypernoodle . . . I am not expressing myself well then
* Marie1 is starting to think that Elissa and I are tuned into the same uni-mind
Elissa . . . ok
Elissa . . . :)
Hypernoodle . . . Because it seems that you have not lost that experience but have brought it along and joined with it to see the bright new future :)
Marie1 . . . bingo
Elissa . . . o, i have not lost it!
RevRandy . . . (yes you have ;-)
Marie1 . . . hyper, you just said what i have been trying to add....i could not think of the words to say it.
Elissa . . . i hope so, hyper
Elissa . . . :P randy
Hypernoodle . . . so the vision remains and moves forward.....a joining of past, present, and future
WhiteTiger . . . got one for ya... if that event is "past"... in light of the rikkity post earlier, why would ya want it again? isn't that using the past as yer model for the future? in other words, living in the past?
Marie1 . . . yes hyper....
RevRandy . . . exactly, WT
Elissa . . . that was a vision of the future, wt... without details or proof or anything concrete
TF88 . . . I would think what Elissa wants is another awesome experience, not an identical one
Elissa . . . definitely tf! but i know those are peak experiences, and i don't stress about it lol
RevRandy . . . the vision was not of what was, but what was yet to be
TF88 . . . I had a similar experience elissa, almost exactly when you did
WhiteTiger . . . and there is the segue to yer topic, tf... "that pleases/pleased me" i no more than judging the ocean of what is by the thimbleful that is our capacity to hold, imo
Hypernoodle . . . Don't most things that come to be begin with a vision?
Marie1 . . . perhaps that was an experience that give or show pure fulfillment or joy.....no matter where you are in life...an experience like that gives you hope, faith and an understanding that settles deep within your core self.
TF88 . . . and it was the only personal experience I would label "awesome"...and yes, I would like more of them! LOL
Elissa . . . wow, tf! that doesn't really surprise me lol... but please share it with us
Marie1 . . . ...for lack of words....it gives you peace within.
TF88 . . . I don't know that I can find the words to express my experience
TF88 . . . I "saw" the universe...in brilliant energy and color and felt a connectedness that is like nothing I have ever experienced prior
TF88 . . . vibrant colors that I can't even name
TF88 . . . I "saw" equality...how do I describe that though???
TF88 . . . but it will be an experience I will not forget :)
Elissa . . . you "are" it, as hyper said... no need to describe it
TF88 . . . I know though that I only got a glimpse...I don't have all the details ;)
Elissa . . . that's good :)
RevRandy . . . TF - that sounds so wonderful
Elissa . . . anyone else have an experience of sensing unity?
TF88 . . . I will have to see if I can find the date of when this happened elissa, because I do think it was about when you had yours.
Elissa . . . i'd like to know that, tf... perhaps we tapped into the same source at the same "time"... whatever that means lol
TF88 . . . :)
WhiteTiger . . . closest I have come to experiencing unity was the times I have stood as one with the rest of myself... hardly transcendental or universal
Hypernoodle . . . I think the only time I felt unity/oneness had nothing to do with here....so it doesn't count lol
Elissa . . . that sense can lead to an understanding of others, too, wt
Elissa . . . sure it does hyper
WhiteTiger . . . didn't lead to it, Elissa... that was part and parcel of the package, each time ;)
Elissa . . . ah, so it was universal in that sense
WhiteTiger . . . nope
Hypernoodle . . . I did take a very dear friend to the edge of the place I recall though once.....she had a neat reaction to it :)
Elissa . . . nope?
WhiteTiger . . . not universal in any sense... distinct me/not me boundaries in all directions... and an intense sense of awareness of limitation
Elissa . . . ah i see... what was feeling like wt?
WhiteTiger . . . feeling was a tiny element of the experience, but mostly what there was of it was serene ... complete and ruthless acceptance and awareness of what is (the parts within reach)
Elissa . . . but not uncomfortable
WhiteTiger . . . uncomfortable means yer anticipating something ya don't care to experience... the serenity was acceptance of all that was within the scope of awareness... all
WhiteTiger . . . can't be uncomfy when yer in that sort of serene ;)
Elissa . . . how did that affect your interaction with life afterwards
WhiteTiger . . . lol... was the first step in the death of the mask *I* had worn up till then
Elissa . . . so it had to do with self-acceptance
WhiteTiger . . . only vaguely and peripherally... was more a case of release
Elissa . . . ok folks, one more PtoP before we end:
Elissa . . . 0,12"So, listen up. If we focus in a direction, we can access information
Elissa . . . 0,12in that direction but we may lose it in another. This is an important
Elissa . . . 0,12lesson. You, as physical beings, are limited in the direction of sight
Elissa . . . 0,12and sound and touch and...o yes...spirit. Surprised? If that is a sense,
Elissa . . . 0,12then it also is limited to the extent that you can and do focus and
Elissa . . . 0,12direct it. So some psychics have great powers of vision but are
Elissa . . . 0,12narrow-minded. The gift of sight does not mean we see all.
Elissa . . . 0,12Not there, not here, not yet.
Elissa . . . 0,12
Elissa . . . 0,12"One of the aspects of the growing complexity of the spirit is that
Elissa . . . 0,12it takes on more facets, each directed in a unique direction.
Elissa . . . 0,12And the whole and the entity--which are the same--have that many
Elissa . . . 0,12more psychic eyes. When we say God is able to see all, that does not
Elissa . . . 0,12mean he can or she can or it can peek under bathroom stalls.
Elissa . . . 0,12It means that there abides a capacity to receive information
Elissa . . . 0,12from all directions of all natures. It is that the divine is
Elissa . . . 0,12able to receive all, not that it is able to look at all.
Elissa . . . 0,12
Elissa . . . 0,12"As we combine in our spiritual persistence.com, we entities bring
Elissa . . . 0,12not only our spirits but also our awarenesses. We grow to become
Elissa . . . 0,12a great array of antennae--open, ready, receptive. At the level
Elissa . . . 0,12we are now we have many antennae, but not nearly all or enough;
Elissa . . . 0,12and many we have don't get used. So it is good to try to use and
Elissa . . . 0,12develop the ones we have but under-use, but sometimes people--
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Elissa . . . 0,12aka entities--try to develop and use antennae they don't have.
Elissa . . . 0,12What a waste. What a tragedy. Example: A person who is fully attuned
Elissa . . . 0,12to Western thought may strive to become attuned to Eastern; but
Elissa . . . 0,12the best they can do is go through the motions, while all the time
Elissa . . . 0,12their capacity for deeper reasoning is neglected. Watch for those
Elissa . . . 0,12who focus on means, not ends, and there they are in costume and
Elissa . . . 0,12play-acting. And remember, no one set of antennae is correct.
Elissa . . . 0,12In the end we'll need them all. That's it. Ponder it." (9/15/98 - I#26)
Elissa . . . "there abides a capacity to receive information
Elissa . . . from all directions of all natures."
Elissa . . . and if that capacity is in All That Is (or God) then it is within each of us potentially as well
Elissa . . . but what i see here is that it is not necessary for us to know or understand
WhiteTiger . . . say what?
Elissa . . . every different perspective... only to be open and receptive to them
Elissa . . . what do you see in this, wt?
WhiteTiger . . . that's a bit like saying that since the carpenter has the ability to build a chair, then the chair has that ability innate within it
Elissa . . . if we are to find ultimate unity ultimately, then there is that capacity
RevRandy . . . no, I think it is saying that having the ability to make a chair, one might also have the capacity to build a stool, and then maybe a table, and then maybe a desk
WhiteTiger . . . that is the sticking point for me... where did this notion of ultimate unity come from?
RevRandy . . . until one could make all things wooden, and then maybe move on to metal, plastic,
Elissa . . . trying to put this in concrete terms is self-defeating from my perspective
Elissa . . . it came from Rikkity... and to her from the universe i guess :)
WhiteTiger . . . rather like saying that if ya dip a thimble in the ocean frequently enough, the thimble will become an ocean
Hypernoodle . . . I have to scroll....brb
Elissa . . . how about that each thimble full of ocean is part of the ocean and it doesn't matter that they aren't the same thing
WhiteTiger . . . even if ya suppose that the thimble becomes larger with each use, sooner or later the bounds of it's thimble nature reach their limit and it is rent asunder
suwan . . . hologram
TF88 . . . and the ocean in the thimble is still the ocean even if you take it to a different location
Elissa . . . hologram suwan?
suwan . . . in a hologram each piece is the same as the whole
WhiteTiger . . . ahhhhh... but it does matter, imo... one thimble has brine shrimp, the next has red tide organisms... thee is distinction
Elissa . . . i didn't know that
TF88 . . . depending upon your perspective WT
TF88 . . . if you define the ocean by parts
suwan . . . if you break it apart into molecules the molecule is the same structure as the whole, has one of those little pictures in it
Elissa . . . that is very cool
WhiteTiger . . . if you define the ocean as a whole, then define a part, you are defining two different things... shared identity does not occur
RevRandy . . . yep - passing the laser through any point in the hologram produces the same effect -- it does not matter which point
Elissa . . . ultimate unity is not unity at the level we are now
RevRandy . . . OK - WT - where does the "you" of you exist in your body?
Elissa . . . we can only combine little by little... like atoms into molecules
WhiteTiger . . . that hologram analogy falls apart, imo... all that is similar in the shards is the regenerated image.. and even then it is not identical
Elissa . . . i think we may need another session on unity! lol
WhiteTiger . . . I don't exist in my body... in fact, this is a loaner :)
RevRandy . . . OK - then where are you?
RevRandy . . . and are you unified with that whatever?
RevRandy . . . But, yes, another time, another chance at it all.
RevRandy . . . For, folks, it is 11ET
Elissa . . . :(
WhiteTiger . . . I'm not a where... and no, *I* am not unified... don't have even vaguely close to the capacity for that
Hypernoodle . . . well, that was what I asked for at the beginning Elissa .... my question about oneness :)
Elissa . . . some day we'll have a marathon SP... 24 hours lol
RevRandy . . . Time for SP to pack its bags and slip into the night (or actually back to www.spiritualpersistence.com)
Elissa . . . true, hyper... duh :)
TF88 . . . night everyone
Marie1 . . . oh boy
Hypernoodle . . . have a wonderful week :)
RevRandy . . . life is that marathon
Hypernoodle . . . take care all
RevRandy . . . be well all
Hypernoodle . . . ttfn
suwan . . . goodnight everyone
WhiteTiger . . . have a good one RR, ELissa :)
Elissa . . . and now here's the rainbow song and may it sing you on your way to dreams of unity
RevRandy . . . merci
Marie1 . . . nite randy...good to see you again.
WhiteTiger . . . thx for another good convo :)
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa . . . 0,6!Elissa rainbow.mid 6,0 :o)
RevRandy . . . nite marie
Elissa . . . thank YOU wt... always provocative :)
WhiteTiger . . . -- gadfly *G*
WhiteTiger . . . . . . *le poof*
Session Close: Sun Aug 20 23:21:07 2000

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the Rev Dr Randolph and Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed., LPC, NCC
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