log051400

Session Start: Sun May 14 20:42:25 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Tonight's 2,7Topic: 2,8"Mothers" 2,9Sunday 2,11May 14 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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Elissa . . . .hi everyone!!!
TF88 . . . .hi elissa
suwan . . . .sheesh the woman can't exactly sneak into a room, can she?
RevRandy . . . .no way - not on her day
Elissa . . . .hahaha hi suwan
StF . . . .Hi elissa
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Elissa . . . .my friend Keiko is here with me tonight
Elissa . . . .she's a classmate
RevRandy . . . .and if I had stayed home tonight all three of us would have tried to snuggle into a little room - so I came into the office
TF88 . . . .hmmmm, are you sure you're not channeling Keiko? LOL
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Elissa . . . .hahaha tf... i don't theeeenk so
sharross . . . .Hey Rev R - how are ya !!
Elissa . . . .hey sharr!
sharross . . . .HEY 'Lissa !!
TF88 . . . .I sure have missed these discussions...glad to be back
RevRandy . . . .Well, it is time to get started ... yes?
RevRandy . . . .so, welcome to y'all
RevRandy . . . .welcome to Spiritual Persistence (or SP as it is sometimes called)
RevRandy . . . .I know we have some first time people here, so let's have that brief introduction, please
Elissa . . . .ok, folks here comes the tour :)
Elissa . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa . . . .Williamsburg, VA.
Elissa . . . . I am a writer, medium, and published poet, and
Elissa . . . .am currently a Masters student in Community Counseling
Elissa . . . .at the College of William and Mary.
Elissa . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa . . . .on August 20, 1995.
Elissa . . . .She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for that body of
Elissa . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa . . . .Ponder.
Elissa . . . .It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa . . . .and death, of connection,
Elissa . . . .and of our place in the universe.
Elissa . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives.
Elissa . . . . We are here to
Elissa . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore what it means
Elissa . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this
Elissa . . . .journey.
Elissa . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa . . . . or email Randy or me anytime. Thanks
Elissa . . . .for coming...and again, welcome! Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
RevRandy . . . .Before we begin, we always offer a simple invocation
RevRandy . . . .and I invite you to join in the spirit of these words
RevRandy . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy . . . .Protected from all things evil
RevRandy . . . .And guided in all ways gracious.
RevRandy . . . .Amen
StF . . . .amen
Elissa . . . .amen~
sharross . . . .Amen
TF88 . . . .amen
OX . . . .amen
Elissa . . . .first let me say a special welcome to all mothers here, no matter what your gender :)
Elissa . . . .... or whether or not you have children
RevRandy . . . .Well, after an absence in chat for several weeks,
RevRandy . . . .a week ago Friday Rikkity gave us a treat
RevRandy . . . .of a special one of her "shows", a connection to several spirits over with her
RevRandy . . . .in this case she told us to share this on Mother's Day
RevRandy . . . .and see what it evoked in all of the chatters
RevRandy . . . .So, in just a moment I will share a piece of that, and then we can see what y'all think
RevRandy . . . .we actually have four different perspectives this evening from that time
RevRandy . . . .and then there should be time to see how we are all doing on the day which can be hard for many
RevRandy . . . .So, on to the four visitors (who usually are identified by initials - with one notable exception, as you will see)
RevRandy . . . . 0,2MOP:
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"Hello. We have met in another lifetime. Singing and dancing... in Denmark.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2It was a great time for singing, the sky was bright and clear, clear,
RevRandy . . . . 0,2clear... and all the stars shone brightly, seeming so near, so near,
RevRandy . . . . 0,2near... pirouette.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"I was nobody's mother, and everybody's. In every social unit there is
RevRandy . . . . 0,2somebody who does not have children but is parent to the community. Children
RevRandy . . . . 0,2are not the measure of motherhood. Many with children are not mothers. But I
RevRandy . . . . 0,2loved all children. I would remember birthdays and special honors, and even
RevRandy . . . . 0,2their favorite songs and dances. When they were small they would come to me
RevRandy . . . . 0,2with their cuts and scrapes if home was afar; and later with problems to
RevRandy . . . . 0,2solve; and still later with bravado, and with bits of the heart that needed
RevRandy . . . . 0,2telling to one who never spoke against pride. They laughed with me and cried
RevRandy . . . . 0,2with me, and I became godparent to many of their children. At my funeral
RevRandy . . . . 0,2there were friends from 1 to 90. You see, it is not about age but about
RevRandy . . . . 0,2caring; and never seeing oneself as unworthy of respect, but also never
RevRandy . . . . 0,2seeing oneself as the center of the world.
RevRandy . . . .I will stop here (MOP has more to say in a minute)
Elissa . . . .have you known anyone like MOP in your life?
RevRandy . . . .I am struck in these words by both the trans-generational caring/love that is expressed, and by that last thought
RevRandy . . . . 0,2You see, it is not about age but about
RevRandy . . . . 0,2caring; and never seeing oneself as unworthy of respect, but also never
RevRandy . . . . 0,2seeing oneself as the center of the world.
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StF . . . .Yes, a piece speaks directly to me
RevRandy . . . .And who was such a person in your life? Did you have one
Elissa . . . .tell us, stf
StF . . . .Learning to love myself...so that I can love others
StF . . . .Many many times, I and others disrespected me
Elissa . . . .that's an important learning
StF . . . .Feeling of unworthiness has carried throughout my life
StF . . . .But God has placed His hand upon me...and I know Love now
Elissa . . . .((((((stf))))))
RevRandy . . . .to be is to be worthy of respect
Elissa . . . .if only everyone knew that
TF88 . . . .I knew someone such as MOP...a male teacher, very much a nurturer
RevRandy . . . .can you say some more TF
TF88 . . . .he would take the time to know students and students could rely upon him to be there to help with anything
TF88 . . . .anything going on with their lives
RevRandy . . . .what a gift, to know such a person and have them care about you
RevRandy . . . .I suspect that as we think of such people, we begin to realise that they are different from many who would like to be that way
Elissa . . . .and so vital to have people like that in our lives when we may not be getting nurturing from our biological parents
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RevRandy . . . .MOP went on to say this:
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"And here's a hint: Those who claim to be selfless in their devotions are
RevRandy . . . . 0,2actually the most selfish and self-centered. You have to be there in
RevRandy . . . . 0,2selfhood to not demand the center stage. Good mothering is not about it
RevRandy . . . . 0,2being about you... but neither is it an absence of you, but a relationship.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2I never gave them anything; just was myself. They never gave me anything;
RevRandy . . . . 0,2they were just themselves. And we were fabulously wealthy. Why do you think
RevRandy . . . . 0,2we could sing and dance all day. And by the way, I was a man. Goodbye." (5/5/2000)
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RevRandy . . . .being oneself and being there for others at the same time -
RevRandy . . . .the essence of such a really nurturing, "mothering" relationship, without regard to gender
Elissa . . . .not many parents can achieve that relationship with their children... it takes not needing their children to be what the parents want them to be---very hard to do
RevRandy . . . .Does this resonate with you?
RevRandy . . . .Elissa - what you just said reminds me of all the parents on the sidelines at kids' sports, wanting the kids to do what the parents did not do in their childhood
Elissa . . . .o yes
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RevRandy . . . .or maybe don't do at work, or in relationships,
RevRandy . . . .nurturing and imposition are not the same thing, at all!
Elissa . . . .we so often give our children what we needed and never got as children, rather than what THEY need
StF . . . .yes
RevRandy . . . .I am also struck by the juxtaposition of not giving anything, just being, and being then fabulously wealthy
RevRandy . . . .that being is the greatest gift we can give one another
StF . . . .if you know your self
RevRandy . . . .ah yes
Elissa . . . .quite a different view of motherhood than we usually get
Elissa . . . .i don't hear any mention of sacrifice, etc.
RevRandy . . . ."After all I have done for you, after all I have given you, I would expect you would give your mother a little more respect than that ......yadayadayada"
OX . . . .the more we give of ourselves, the wealthier we are and it isn't always material wealth
Elissa . . . .i could have saved so much money if i knew that before!!! LOL
Keep . . . .I often tell my children to reach for their dreams. And if there is a will there is a way.
TF88 . . . .the "sacrifice" thing really irks me...somehow we are taught that to be a good mother means sacrificing oneself
RevRandy . . . .OX - I think the only real gifts are not material
Keep . . . .There is wealth in finding out how to reach those dreams.
Elissa . . . .yes tf
RevRandy . . . .and even if they do not reach the full dream, the journey toward there is worth it
Keep . . . .yes. and dreams can change.
RevRandy . . . .and probably need to change
Elissa . . . .but it has to be their journey and not ours
StF . . . .I am currently in the throngs of trying to heal myself, and heal my relationship with my mom
StF . . . .which she didn't know needed healing
RevRandy . . . .aha
Elissa . . . .good luck, stf :)
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RevRandy . . . .you can only heal yourself, and offer that - she will need to do her own work
RevRandy . . . .hey Jackie
Jackie . . . .Hi everyone
StF . . . .ty
Elissa . . . .right randy
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RevRandy . . . .but back to the sacrifice theme -
Keep . . . .I think we are healing it reaches out to people around us
Elissa . . . .if they're open to it, keep
Elissa . . . .ladydi hi!
LadyDi . . . .hi ya elissa :)
RevRandy . . . .there is some ripe territory for martyrdom
OX . . . .sometimes martyrdom is good when you are teaching
RevRandy . . . .I wonder how many mothers have chosen martyrdom because at least then they felt that had some status
Elissa . . . .... or got some energy that way from their children and others
StF . . . .Or were too stuck in it to look at it
StF . . . .Yes, Elissa, sucked the love from their children because they had none in their life
RevRandy . . . .guilt is a great way to ensure that energy will flow (even if perversely) to you
Elissa . . . .yep stf, exactly... or felt that they didn't have enough
TF88 . . . .or more like, sucked the love from their children because they didn't love themselves
StF . . . .yes, TF
Elissa . . . .o yes, of course
RevRandy . . . .oh, dear yes, TF
RevRandy . . . ."and you better love me after all I have done for you ......"
StF . . . .But it's difficult to be a parent to your parent, when you are a child
Elissa . . . .been there, done that
RevRandy . . . .I wonder if you should even try that .... maybe just be an adult, and see if they can relate to you as an adult
RevRandy . . . .and leave what happened back then to then
StF . . . .Yes, your comment earlier...time to get past the past
StF . . . .Heal the present and move on
Elissa . . . .as a child you don't always have a conscious choice, randy... you just go along with the program
OX . . . .I always wanted my children to give the last that they had to others who needed it more and that is a lesson you cannot teach without some self sacrifice.
RevRandy . . . .I know that .... but I am suggesting when you do become aware, make your choices and move on
StF . . . .But the question is....
Keep . . . .hard to break old patterns
RevRandy . . . .change is always hard
Keep . . . .knowing you need to is a first step
Elissa . . . .yes, but that sometimes takes a long time to recognize
StF . . . .Is it necessary to explore the issues with the other person?
TF88 . . . .what we can't do is expect the other person to break their patterns just because we want it...all we can do is break our own
Elissa . . . .stf, i've found that usually brings only frustration, but it's certainly worth a try...
StF . . . .Makes it very hard for me to deal with my mom now...
Elissa . . . .just don't have high expectations
StF . . . .Keep reminding myself to begin with me...
StF . . . .That helps
RevRandy . . . .Sometimes things have to get very hard before they get easier
TF88 . . . .StF, I think what is important is to deal together with present issues, not past issues
RevRandy . . . .amen TF
Elissa . . . .if you can stay whole in the relationship, you will find the relationship will change, stf
StF . . . .But when the past is an ongoing series of dramas that never stop...
TF88 . . . .this is precisely what I am going through with my own mother
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Elissa . . . .and i went through that for many years
TF88 . . . .StF, the danger is when we think we will agree about the past and resolve it. Personally I don't feel that happens. However we can make enormous changes in the present.
StF . . . .ty, agreed
Elissa . . . .yes, tf... good point
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RevRandy . . . .I think we should move on to more of the communication we are considering
RevRandy . . . . 0,2Rikkity: "Motherhood is about biology. Mothering is about being human. And
RevRandy . . . . 0,2that was not Papa. This is Papa:
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"Hi, babe. Let me tell you about mothers. Ouweeee, what I could say. But as
RevRandy . . . . 0,2a general rule, this is what I say, and you can draw your own conclusions...
RevRandy . . . . 0,2or contusions. If someone can say of their mother, ‘She's a great person' or
RevRandy . . . . 0,2‘She's a friend,' that's great. But when they feel compelled to brag about
RevRandy . . . . 0,2what a great mother they are, watch out: incoming bullshit. The given
RevRandy . . . . 0,2accolade or the assumed title of ‘good mother' is a warning sign. Now take
RevRandy . . . . 0,2your mother... please... and her mother, and her mother's mother and her
RevRandy . . . . 0,2mother's mother's mother. All the saints of the Earth... yeah... right. So,
RevRandy . . . . 0,2if they were, why did they and their children have to say so so often. It
RevRandy . . . . 0,2should have been evident. You only proclaim what is not evident, and
RevRandy . . . . 0,2probably not so true. So, look, I won't say that I have a great daughter or
RevRandy . . . . 0,2a great grandspirit or that I was the world's best dad... only that we had
RevRandy . . . . 0,2fun and love and mistakes and forgiveness.
Jackie . . . .sounds like a good discussion, sorry I have to leave, night all PS I like that, fun and love and mistakes and forgiveness
Jackie . . . .I'll mention that to my kids
Elissa . . . .nite jackie... come back soon
RevRandy . . . .;-)
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"And as for her [your mother], she can keep on proclaiming her status as
RevRandy . . . . 0,2‘mother saint, martyr of all time.' It won't stick, so it has to be
RevRandy . . . . 0,2reapplied over and over. Happy M-Day in advance and happy other day {wink
RevRandy . . . . 0,2wink} 10th. She's coming at me with a dog, a mop, and a bill for school
RevRandy . . . . 0,2supplies. Goodbye." (5/5/2000)
RevRandy . . . .Interesting idea - that if one is a good mother figure, one does not need it (self) proclaimed
Elissa . . . .papa was more my mother than my mother
RevRandy . . . .I am also struck by the notion of that line "only that we had fun and love and mistakes and forgiveness"
RevRandy . . . .not adoration
RevRandy . . . .not success
RevRandy . . . .not perfection
RevRandy . . . .not agreement
RevRandy . . . .but fun
RevRandy . . . .love
Elissa . . . .i love that line.... and it describes our relationship well
RevRandy . . . .mistakes,
RevRandy . . . .and forgiveness
Elissa . . . .we had some difficult times, times when we didn't speak to each other and much disappointment... but the love was always there, and forgiveness
Elissa . . . .and we laughed and had fun
RevRandy . . . .I wonder if forgiveness (truly, whole-hearted, nothing held back or kept for later use, forgiveness) is not the essential key
TF88 . . . .what do you mean by "kept for later use"?
Elissa . . . .i wonder if forgiveness is even possible without love
StF . . . .Forgiven = Forgotten
RevRandy . . . .I meant those who say "I forgive" but in a later argument still remember it and bring it up
TF88 . . . .thank you
RevRandy . . . .good ?? Elissa -
RevRandy . . . .if we love, then we remember the healing, not the wounds
Elissa . . . .probably low expectations help too LOL
StF . . . .:)
RevRandy . . . .healing - where two life forces, like two patches of skin, grow again toward each other until they bond into life
Elissa . . . .into love
RevRandy . . . .yep
RevRandy . . . .well, here on the east coast it is 10 pm, and that means we will take about a 8.865 minute break
RevRandy . . . .please feel free to keep on chatting
Elissa . . . .bbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkk
RevRandy . . . .but Elissa and I will be stretching our legs
RevRandy . . . .and be back with more about mothers
suwan . . . .it won't help, I've tried it
suwan . . . .they just grow bigger around, not longer
StF . . . .lol
Elissa . . . .we have LOTS more to come so don't touch that dial!!!!!!
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RevRandy . . . .OK folks - let's start taking our seats again (yes, and take them over there)
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RevRandy . . . .welcome back
RevRandy . . . .after we talked to Papa, we then talked with an old friend
RevRandy . . . . 0,2MW:
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"Gracious good day. And I am not a man. But MOP is! O yes. He's no G, but
RevRandy . . . . 0,2he's good. Nothing naughty, just appreciative.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"We have spoken of loss before. There is no one who has borne a child who
RevRandy . . . . 0,2does not know loss. Many hide it, deny it, sanctify it, rationalize it; but
RevRandy . . . . 0,2it is the reality. We lose them from womb to world, from tit--excuse me, but
RevRandy . . . . 0,2we might have said teat--to table, from crib to tavern, from childhood to
RevRandy . . . . 0,2adult. Some to death and some to distance and some to marriage. And some we
RevRandy . . . . 0,2lose by holding so close that we won't lose them, that we then lose them as
RevRandy . . . . 0,2growing spirits.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"The lesson of being human and a mother is the lesson of loss, and still the
RevRandy . . . . 0,2lesson of life. And even those without children have a loss--the loss of
RevRandy . . . . 0,2children not being. To be the bringers of life means to be the vessels of
RevRandy . . . . 0,2loss as well. And how well one deals with one is how well they deal with the
RevRandy . . . . 0,2other.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"Loss and life intertwine within all women. Gracious good day to you all.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2Goodbye." (5/5/2000)
RevRandy . . . .Now that is a lot of stuff to consider!
TF88 . . . .It's all very moving
Elissa . . . .stuff :)
RevRandy . . . .(stuff is a technical term)
Elissa . . . .MW is one of my favorite ladies
StF . . . .as mothers we consider it every day
RevRandy . . . .loss as part of the fabric of being for those who are also the creators
RevRandy . . . .but when one thinks of it as part of that fabric, and not as something that is done to one....
Elissa . . . .how one deals with loss is how one deals with life
RevRandy . . . .yes, elissa
RevRandy . . . .but in our acquisitive culture, we are not taught about loss, only about gain, so loss comes as a shock to many
RevRandy . . . .and seems to be a denial of life, rather than a part of life
Elissa . . . .to not acknowledge loss is to diminish our experience of life
Elissa . . . .(i think that was Rikkity whispering in my ear)
RevRandy . . . .is she about?
Elissa . . . .o yes :)
Elissa . . . .she says, "hey, dude"
RevRandy . . . .hey Rikkity
RevRandy . . . .visiting Mom tonight
Elissa . . . .go on, she'll have something to say in a few minutes
RevRandy . . . .OK
RevRandy . . . .so, what does MW say to you?
RevRandy . . . .Does it strike a chord (or even a single note)
RevRandy . . . .Guess she has said it all
TF88 . . . .I think it's worded so perfectly I can't comment
TF88 . . . .she said it
Elissa . . . .:)
RevRandy . . . .she does have a way of getting to the heart of it
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RevRandy . . . .well then, after we spoke with MW, we had the privilege of speaking with one more person
Elissa . . . .sandy?
Elissa . . . .o no, not sandy... she was late LOL
Sandy . . . .yesm?
Sandy . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . .no one is ever late - maybe early for next week
Sandy . . . .there elissa, see??!!
* Sandy sticks her tongue out at Elissa
TF88 . . . .elissa has such trouble grasping the concept of time ;)
Elissa . . . .ok, now Rikkity's singing, "happy mother's day to you!"
RevRandy . . . .there is no time - so how can anyone be late
Sandy . . . .k rev, listening
Elissa . . . .:P sandy
Sandy . . . .:)
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RevRandy . . . .(shhhhh)
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Elissa-Rikkity . . . .ok, guys, listen up
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .you have all been born, and you will all die...
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .and be born again... and again, and again.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .life is a whole, and to discount any part of it
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .is to discount life...
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .and to discount life is to discount who you are.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .you are the sum total of all you experience,
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .the sum total of all you feel and hope and dream and do.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .embrace it all and you embrace yourself...
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .not only yourself but others, and not only others
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .but the universe and that which the future contains for all of us.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .i know loss is hard and painful, but in the midst of the pain you feel
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .you need to also feel the fullness that is contained in every moment
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .of life.... or you will miss life.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .life as a whole, as a sum of the pain and the joy, is
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .where you must be if you are to move forward.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .so, cry your tears and then wipe them away
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .and laugh at the absurdity and insanity and wonder of it all.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .your children are not gone, your children and your parents
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .are always here and always with you.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .and so am i.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .tonight i send my deepest and most grateful love to all of you
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .who have gathered in this room on sundays evenings to
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .listen and learn from me and my 2 mothers :)
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .feel my love and my admiration and respect for your openness,
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .and move into tomorrow with joy.
Elissa-Rikkity . . . .thank you, and goodnight.
RevRandy . . . .ty Miss Rikkity
StF . . . .ty
TF88 . . . .thank you Rikkity
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LadyDi . . . .Thank you Rikkity
Elissa . . . .thank you, dear daughter
RevRandy . . . .(just taking a minute here for myself)
RevRandy . . . .awesome stuff (there's that term again)
RevRandy . . . .it is about it all, isn't it, not just the parts that we seem to obsess about
RevRandy . . . . 0,2Rikkity: "And now, straight from Bournemouth, here's FS:
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"Allo. Good day. A cuppa? You look like a mother. Here, sit down. Let me
RevRandy . . . . 0,2tell you a thing or 2. Hey, quiet up. I'm speaking to this ‘ere lady. Madam,
RevRandy . . . . 0,2I have 3 wee ones of my own, though by now they are probably grown tall and,
RevRandy . . . . 0,2if lucky, fat.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"I grew up in a home of 11 children. Neither mom nor dad could say no, so
RevRandy . . . . 0,2 11. And so I got some schooling, but not much, and then I began to work. So
RevRandy . . . . 0,2you see, no fine education. No manners but no airs. I am just me. And my 3
RevRandy . . . . 0,2and I, their father gone in a mine accident, we 4 do ok. We fight and love
RevRandy . . . . 0,2and hug, and I am working so they will finish school and not be trapped
RevRandy . . . . 0,2behind this ‘ere counter. But I can tell you this: Into this shop come
RevRandy . . . . 0,2people of all types--rich, poor, educated, ignorant, titled, and common. And
RevRandy . . . . 0,2none of that matters. For the act of caring is a matter of character, not of
RevRandy . . . . 0,2station. It is in you, not learned this time around... like she says,
RevRandy . . . . 0,2learned and remembered.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2"So, don't take the things of your world to be the measure of a mom. Look
RevRandy . . . . 0,2into their hearts of hearts, there it will be. I need say no more. I got
RevRandy . . . . 0,2other customers. Cream? Of course, dear. Ta- ta." (5/5/2000)
RevRandy . . . .the act of caring is a matter of character, not of station
RevRandy . . . .hmmmmm
RevRandy . . . .it is not about education, money, possessions, etc
RevRandy . . . .but about what one has learned and remembered into one's being
RevRandy . . . .and if that is true, then it cannot be about what we give our children other than our own selves
RevRandy . . . .and as we give that to them, they can feel free to find themselves, and thus their own measure of character
RevRandy . . . .from which can flow all measure of love and response to need
*** Sherman (ADCjava@***.sk.sympatico.ca) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy . . . .so, don't think "if only I were rich", or "If only I were more educated"
Sherman . . . .hi everyone
RevRandy . . . .all you have to be is yourself
RevRandy . . . .hi sherman
Elissa . . . .hi sherman :)
StF . . . .Resonates deeply with me...Building character is in the forefront of my learning right now. "To be a person of character you must build your own character"
RevRandy . . . .and trust that person you build/find
StF . . . .Again, with my mom, feeling that she had not looked at her own self...therefore not been there for me...How blind...
StF . . . .As this lady says..."Look within their heart of hearts...
Elissa . . . .she will, stf... maybe not this time around though
StF . . . .Whatever she was...within her heart of heart she loved us deeply and did her best
RevRandy . . . .but her not being there should not keep you from being you for yourself
StF . . . .Thank you for helping tonight.
RevRandy . . . .yw
RevRandy . . . .Rikkity ended with these thoughts
RevRandy . . . . 0,2Rikkity: "So there they are. So, sing and dance. Don't brag or proclaim.
RevRandy . . . . 0,2Know that motherhood is about loss, and living to meaning beyond it, and that nothing of the world is a measure of knowing this."
RevRandy . . . .That's saying so much
RevRandy . . . .To hear it, to read it .... and then take it to heart -- ah, there's the challenge of learning and remembering
RevRandy . . . .So, how have y'all spent Mothers' Day?
RevRandy . . . .(both in activity and psychologically)
Sherman . . . .Mom and family just left - that's why I'm late!
Elissa . . . .everyone is lost in thoughts and feelings
suwan . . . .not lost just not much to tell
RevRandy . . . .sherman - was it a good time
Sherman . . . .yeah, it was great, i love family get togethers!
Elissa . . . .hi suwan... what's happening for you right now
suwan . . . .same old same old
Elissa . . . .how about you sandy
Sandy . . . .was ok, nothing great, nothing bad
Elissa . . . .ok is ok, i guess :)
suwan . . . .sorry I don't mean to be unresponsive, I just feel that those who have lost kids have a lot more issues today than I do
Sandy . . . .however, jason came thru with a message last night that was similar to what rikkity is saying
Elissa . . . .wow, tell us about it please!
RevRandy . . . .please tell us
Sandy . . . .but...this was something else. Someone asked me about jason being a twin, and how with josh here, they look alike, are alike, so....how is that? I had to ponder a bit...:)
Sandy . . . .and realized that it's just another "nudge" for me to realize that it isn't his physical self that i missed...it is his spirit. And I have access to that, more than i had before.
Sandy . . . .So that's kewl.
RevRandy . . . .quite an appreciation
Elissa . . . .yes, i understand
Sandy . . . .I mean if it were his physical self, i could just substitute josh
Sandy . . . .and i can't do that
Sandy . . . .interesting
Elissa . . . .o yes, i feel that way too, but sometimes the longing for the physical gets mixed up with the longing for the spiritual... or maybe they're just connected for us
Sandy . . . .want me to copy and paste his message?
Sandy . . . .it's kind of long
Elissa . . . .please share his message with us
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . .Sandy...a message for you
Sandy . . . .Sandy . . . .I asked for one Ocallah
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."there is no where i am not"
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."nothing that keeps me from you...."
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . .this is Jason
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i am not too busy,
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."too taken with my new life....
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."and there is nothing you could ever do
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."that would keep me from making my presence known to you
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."no matter how angry,
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."frustrated,
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."self-judgemental
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."fearful
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."lonely
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i did not betray you
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i did not betray love
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."neither did Life
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."and no matter how caught up you get with life
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i am glad
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."let it take you
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."let yourself feel it
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i am there.....wherever you are and whenever
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."you let yourself feel
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."there is no risk
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."no real danger
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."of separation
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."remember this
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i hear you
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."and sometimes you all need to know
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."that it's more than signs
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."and more than making a light flicker
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."more than "proving" ourselves
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."you can't feel me until you first feel this.....
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."there is a reason you question the afterlife.....
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."how could you question its existence if you did not know somewhere deep inside your soul
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."that it is real
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."i am real
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."what part of you is not real?
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."and how do you know you are real?
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."you feel
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."you feel it
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."you see the evidence of your existence
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."to see me is to see with new eyes
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."beyond vision
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."you gave my spirit an ability to express in life
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."but i was real even before the form
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . .":)"
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . .":)"
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."love you mom"
Sandy . . . .Sandy . . . .I love you Jason
Sandy . . . .Ocallah . . . ."have your cake ... eat it too :)"
Sandy . . . .thats all
Elissa . . . .(((((sandy)))))) what a healing message.... thank you. and how WAS your cake?
RevRandy . . . .that was awesome
Sandy . . . .hehe
Sherman . . . .That was truly awesome.
Sandy . . . .no cake
Elissa . . . .no cake :(
Sandy . . . .i believe he was referring to having life AND him
Elissa . . . .yes... what a wonderful ending to our chat tonight... we've had 2 messages from our children in spirit.
suwan . . . .oh I did a reading last night too, of a mother
Elissa . . . .thank you all for being here and contributing your energy and thoughts.
Elissa . . . .wonderful, suwan
Sandy . . . .and it was super
Sandy . . . .i got chills when you said that "mom" said "you are the mother and the daughter"...was a zzzziiinnnnnggggerrr
RevRandy . . . .thanks to one and all
suwan . . . .thank you revrandy
RevRandy . . . .time for all of us to go home .... or stay home .. or call it home
Sandy . . . .thanks rev and elissa and rikkity
Elissa . . . .so here's the rainbow song to wing you on your way...
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa . . . . 0,7!Elissa rainbow.mid 7,0 :o)
Sandy . . . .Nite all
Elissa . . . .goodnight to all mothers and children
Sherman . . . .Good Night Everyone. It's good visit with you again.
suwan . . . .goodnight E, thanks to you and rikkity
RevRandy . . . .nite all
Session Close: Sun May 14 23:06:22 2000/p>