04/16/2000 - SPIRIT

Session Start: Sun Apr 16 20:55:31 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Spirit" 2,9Sunday 2,11April 16 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

RevRandy . . . . .welcome to Spiritual Persistence, or SP as we who need to type it alot say
RevRandy . . . . .it looks like a loyal crowd, but if there are any questions before we start, we welcome them
RevRandy . . . . .(and will dispense with the intro piece)
Elissa . . . . .sherman, do you need the intro?
Sherman . . . . .If it's not too much trouble!
Elissa . . . . .not at all
RevRandy . . . . .oooo, I am sorry - I felt like I knew you already
Sherman . . . . .:)
Elissa . . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa . . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa . . . . .Williamsburg, VA.
Elissa . . . . . I am a writer, medium, and published poet, and
Elissa . . . . .am currently a Masters candidate in Community Counseling
Elissa . . . . .at the College of William and Mary.
Elissa . . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa . . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa . . . . .on August 20, 1995.
Elissa . . . . .She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa . . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa . . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa . . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for that body of
Elissa . . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa . . . . .Ponder.
Elissa . . . . .It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa . . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa . . . . .and death, of connection, and of our place
Elissa . . . . .in the universe.
Elissa . . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa . . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives. We are here to
Elissa . . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore
Elissa . . . . . what it means
Elissa . . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa . . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa . . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa . . . . . or email Randy or me anytime. Thanks
Elissa . . . . .for coming...and again, welcome! Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
RevRandy . . . . .We begin each session with a simple invocation, and ask you to join in the spirit of these words:
RevRandy . . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy . . . . .Protected from all things evil
RevRandy . . . . .and guided in all ways gracious. Amen
Elissa . . . . .amne~
Hanna . . . . .Blessings to all :)
TF88 . . . . .peace
Sherman . . . . .Thanks for the intro, Amen.
Hanna . . . . .And special blessings to 'lissa and her typing guides. :)
RevRandy . . . . .amne?????
Elissa . . . . .thnak yuo :)
RevRandy . . . . .the word for the night so early in the session
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Hanna . . . . .methinks they have their work cut out for them tonight.. lol
Elissa . . . . .sponsored tonight by the amne hardware store chain
Elissa . . . . .hi journey :)
journey . . . . .Hi Elissa, Hanna, RevRandy, Sherman and TF :)
TF88 . . . . .hi journey
Sherman . . . . .Hi Journey.
RevRandy . . . . .Well, folks, like Garrison Keillor might say, it has not been a quiet week in SP
RevRandy . . . . .earlier in the week, on the day of the anniversary of the most recent physical birth into the world of Papa, Elissa's father, Rikkity's grandfather
RevRandy . . . . .we had a long chat with (with an occasional aside by Rikkity)
RevRandy . . . . .and then yesterday we had a long chat with Rikkity herself
RevRandy . . . . .lots of provocative material
RevRandy . . . . .and a few good jokes (in fact one of them almost got us rolling on the floor, laughing our
RevRandy . . . . .so, let's see what we were given, and what you think of it.
RevRandy . . . . .this is from that earlier session with Papa,
RevRandy . . . . .and we left in the introductory material because it is a lead in to what will follow
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Papa:
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"For me? Thanks, I could use more pj's. Light blue with dark blue piping, and on the pocket, 'Papa.'
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Of course, we don't wear them here. We don't wear anything. We just are.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But we can appear to you as if in clothes because who wants to look at a bunch of naked dead people.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2It's not the same kind of naked--spiritual, but since most of the living don't do spiritual
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2we have to translate into physical terms. I am no more than an idea, or a thought, but I do wear pants for you.”
RevRandy . . . . .so, that was the first section - and it laid some of the ground work for what would follow.
RevRandy . . . . .But first, how about this notion of no one wants to look at a bunch of naked dead people - shows how smart the dead are!
Hanna . . . . .lol
TF88 . . . . .hahaha
TF88 . . . . .well, it could unnecessarily frighten us ;)
RevRandy . . . . .But then ---”I am no more than an idea, or a thought, but I do wear pants for you.”
Elissa . . . . .hard to imagine what an idea looks like
RevRandy . . . . .idea , thought - but dressed up so we can receive it
RevRandy . . . . .maybe it has to be dressed up so we can look at it?
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RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"Remember, it is a different way of being... and how.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Sort of like energy, but energy is a physical concept. Ok, 'engineer Papa' talks.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2The concept of matter is clearly physical, but that Einstein guy showed us... by the way, he was Jewish...
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2that matter and energy are the same. E = mc squared.”
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Elissa . . . . .that's what i mean... what might it look like undressed? we can't imagine that
RevRandy . . . . .we would probably not be able to see a naked idea if one were before us
RevRandy . . . . .we have to clothe it in some physical form
WhiteTiger . . . . .remove both the matter and the energy, and what is left of the "thing" is the concept... the raw, and unformed structure
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Elissa . . . . .yes, wt. but i wonder what it looks like. it's like trying to visualize space
RevRandy . . . . .so, as Whitetiger is alluding
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"Remember, it is a different way of being... and how.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Sort of like energy, but energy is a physical concept. Ok, 'engineer Papa' talks.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2The concept of matter is clearly physical, but that Einstein guy showed us... by the way, he was Jewish...
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2that matter and energy are the same. E = mc squared.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So, if matter is physical and matter is energy, then energy is physical.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Plus we use physical means to measure energy. Ok.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So what is all this talk about spirit being of different energy or of different frequencies.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2That's still physical talk.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2People keep trying to explain the spiritual in physical terms because they think they understand physical
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2and so then they would understand spiritual. But noooooo.”
Elissa . . . . .we call it "light" but light is energy, too
WhiteTiger . . . . .RR- so happens this is the direction my personal insanity takes... I perceive patterns of raw concepts
RevRandy . . . . .why insanity???
Elissa . . . . .awesome, wt
RevRandy . . . . .so, what do you see in this piece?
Hypernoodle . . . . .good question :)
Elissa . . . . .white letters on a blue background :)
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol... insanity is function that doesn't accord with the "norm"... this certainly doesn't
RevRandy . . . . .hahahaha -
aud . . . . .do those who recently left us have more energy or less as time goes on
Hanna . . . . .i think it's more that we understand physical.. and so try to put labels on spiritual in order to make it 'fit' into how we understand.
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RevRandy . . . . .or is it blue outlines on a white background?
Elissa . . . . .aud, i think it must be less as they become less physical
aud . . . . .I think so too..our hook, link becomes thinner
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol RR
Hypernoodle . . . . .blue and white are still physical concepts LOL
Elissa . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .Hanna - i agree, and why do we do that?
Elissa . . . . .so do i hanna
journey . . . . .i think we strive to understand something that just "is" and it really doesn't need to be taken apart
Hanna . . . . .It's a stretch to have to let go of our pre-conceived notions and just allow spiritual to 'be'
TF88 . . . . .don't we pretty much use the "vocabulary" we've acquired thus far?
Hanna . . . . .And most people have to learn how to stretch.. and allow things to be what they are.. even if you don't understand them.. they can still just 'be'.
Hanna . . . . .I agree with you TF that we have to use the vocabulary we have to describe things.
RevRandy . . . . .but if we use what is already certain in our understanding to label what is not yet certain, how do we ever move to new understandings?
TF88 . . . . .and that vocabulary is ever-changing
Elissa . . . . .journey, i would agree but by not trying to understand it we too often misunderstand it
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WhiteTiger . . . . .journey- sort of a catch 22, huh? does little if any good to take it apart, and it's too big to swallow all of a piece
Hypernoodle . . . . .It surely has been hard for Tiger to try to get across the concept to me
journey . . . . .i think we try because we are in physical body, but there is the part of us that just "knows" as well
Elissa . . . . .tiger, maybe you can try it on us :)
WhiteTiger . . . . .it doesn't communicate well... no referents here for most of it
Elissa . . . . .i knew you'd say that, wt :)
Hypernoodle . . . . .which means it would require direct "reading".....which can also be altered to fit a different perception
RevRandy . . . . .but not mistake the description for the reality
Hanna . . . . .I agree journey.. and it's that part we have to trust.. that just because we have no words for it.. doesn't mean it isn't real.
RevRandy . . . . .aha, Hanna
Hanna . . . . .uh oh
RevRandy . . . . .but real,, in what way real - and for whom?
Elissa . . . . .yes hyper
WhiteTiger . . . . .good one RR... the description is just a finger pointing the direction... have to move beyond it to the thing pointed at
Elissa . . . . .great point
Elissa . . . . .we translate everything into our own terms
Hypernoodle . . . . .and then how, Tiger, do you know you are in the same place?
RevRandy . . . . .I am annoyed by those who say that because their definitions do not include my experiences, my experiences can't be "real"
Hypernoodle . . . . .true RR
RevRandy . . . . .(for annoyed, read "pissed" "angry" ,...)
WhiteTiger . . . . .when the descriptives synch sufficiently, you can assume yer in the same general area
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol RR
Elissa . . . . .you don't... all you know is that you name something the same way... i think
aud . . . . .do those who recently left keep their most recent or previous essences?
Hypernoodle . . . . .:)
Hanna . . . . .but some things can transcend translation 'lissa.. and they just 'are'.. it's a knowing.. I believe it's universal in nature.
journey . . . . .i agree hanna
Elissa . . . . .yes hanna, but then we try to put that knowing into words
Elissa . . . . .and so into the physical terms we use to communicate
Hypernoodle . . . . .so there is a communication deficiency?
RevRandy . . . . .I have observed people in a spiritual group having a sense that they all had experienced something ... all feeling very close ... until someone felt the need to name it, and then they found little closeness
Elissa . . . . .aud, i believe we are all that we are, multidimensional and multifaceted... we are what we have incorporated into our beings through learning and remembering
WhiteTiger . . . . .Elissa :) "what was, is and shall be" *G*
aud . . . . .yes but living can make the spirt, body and mind weary
Elissa . . . . .evermore :)
RevRandy . . . . .can it make the spirit tired, or our experience of the spirit tired?
WhiteTiger . . . . .hmmmm
Hypernoodle . . . . .tired in what way?
RevRandy . . . . .well, Papa went on with more on this: let's look at it:
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"The spiritual is not just an extension of the physical, or vice versa.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2It is a different thing altogether.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So, if you are speaking of spirit in physical terms you are serving your own needs for control
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2but not getting with the program.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Rikkity told you: yes, you can get it, and when you get it you're out of here.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So get hints yes, glimpses yes, pieces in your experience, and savor them but don't rationalise them
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2(she said it was with an 's' because her tommy boyfriends say so).
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But don't rationalise it to your physical terms. What is called 'mystical' is the closest you will get.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2And that cannot be described in physical terms, except by the weak of mind and fright-filled of heart.”
aud . . . . .take my mom...brilliant in her youth, suffered dementia but more kindness in end
journey . . . . .i believe each of us probably has had an experience that i believe people can have experiences that they do not share as well because there are no words to describe
Hanna . . . . .I agree journey
Elissa . . . . .yes journey... i've had many visions that i'd love to share but they just don't translate
RevRandy . . . . .I was intrigued here with the idea of using physical terms as a matter of control
Elissa . . . . .yes
WhiteTiger . . . . .uhoh... if it can't be described, I'm up the creek LOL
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Elissa . . . . .lol
journey . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .we do the best we can .... but it is beyond what is already describable
Elissa . . . . .we're back to control again
TF88 . . . . .just because we hunt for ways to describe to another doesn't mean we, when alone, completely resort to physical description.
Hypernoodle . . . . .true TF88
Elissa . . . . .true tf
aud . . . . .I have a wonderful belief..
aud . . . . .that we get what we need, when we need it...so not to worry
Hanna . . . . .what if that's what we're here for though.. to learn how to lose that control.. and re-member ourselves to our true soul / spiritual nature?
WhiteTiger . . . . .mmmm... the entire "physical" plenum of experience is something of an "easy out" we use for understanding/control, I think
journey . . . . .i agree tf
Hypernoodle . . . . .I just "live" it when alone
RevRandy . . . . .I think that most people, even those of us trying to be open to this all, have an inherent fear of that unknown which reaches beyond our ability to express it
Elissa . . . . .sounds good, aud... i need someone to write a paper for me lol
aud . . . . .thanks
RevRandy . . . . .Hanna - I think that is what Papa is saying - when you get beyond it, you are also beyond here
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol Elissa
Elissa . . . . .hanna, that's been an ongoing lesson for me!
Hanna . . . . .It is for everyone.
Hanna . . . . .And I think as you learn to let go of the control.. the easier it is to identify experiences with each other WITHOUT having to use many words.. because you just 'know'.
Elissa . . . . .but do you each 'know' it in the same way
aud . . . . .sometimes I think I have tremendous ability...but not my time yet to fully experience
Hanna . . . . .I think you do 'lissa.. even though that knowing can be personal to each. It is still the same.
RevRandy . . . . .I agree, Hanna = control seems an easy way out, but it actually makes the way harder
Elissa . . . . .it's like the guilt we were talking about a couple of weeks ago...
Elissa . . . . .makes it seem like we have control, but it's really a way of avoiding a feeling of fear
RevRandy . . . . .here's some more Papa (I warned you we got a lot this week)
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"So, when people try to link physical and spiritual it is always off the mark.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Even here we don't get it.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But at least we have the sense not to try that.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Here's a puzzler: In your physical world, holism implies connection.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But there is a holism of spiritual existence which is based on something other than connection.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2I have a sense of it being 'being' in itself, but I don't know. If I did, I would be out of here.”
RevRandy . . . . .this left me puzzling, for sure
RevRandy . . . . .a holism that is not based on connection
RevRandy . . . . .something other than connection????
michael . . . . .spiritual Persistence this room is about the ability to go on after some loss in life?
RevRandy . . . . .yes - and about the wisdom we have received from one who has passed on, and shares it with us back here
Hanna . . . . .Rev.. possibly the connection of all connections.. All That Is, perhaps ?
journey . . . . .I am not sure i understand the point being made here
WhiteTiger . . . . .there need be no link, for relationship to exist... connection is not required
RevRandy . . . . .aha Tiger - see what Papa says next
Elissa . . . . .ah wt is getting ahead of us again
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"Remember, connection is a physical notion, ha.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Every notion you have you translate to physical terms. Ta-da.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2That most insightful and complete interpretation of the spiritual by a group of people living and
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2learning about being physical and spiritual will necessarily be wrong... horribly wrong...
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2until they can separate physical and spiritual,”
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RevRandy . . . . .connection is a physical term -(and we hear more about this later in the evening)
Hypernoodle . . . . .YES!
Hypernoodle . . . . .Last blue/white post!
Hypernoodle . . . . .yes!
Elissa . . . . .lol
WhiteTiger . . . . .lmao... hyper is all adither ;)
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Elissa . . . . .hyper is hyper
Hypernoodle . . . . .yes Elissa :)
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Elissa . . . . .:) i like it
WhiteTiger . . . . .eternally ;)
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol....Tiger
Elissa . . . . .so we've been hearing about connection for the past 4 1/2 years, and now we hear that it's only a physical term LOL
Elissa . . . . .o well
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .YES!
RevRandy . . . . .rikkity will clear that up in the second half of tonight
TF88 . . . . .perhaps, Elissa, this indicates some progress? :)
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RevRandy . . . . .TF - you are hot tonight!
Elissa . . . . .hyper, would you say more about your excitement?
Hypernoodle . . . . .Because I can't wait to see where this leads!
Elissa . . . . .o yes, tf... we're moving forward :)
RevRandy . . . . .well, here is some more of Papa
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2and then who wants physical and they move on, letting others misexperience this transition point.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2When Rikkity talked of us being infinitely in the middle of the process from aloneness and total complexity,
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2she meant middle.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Here is where the former emphasis on physical starts to fade before an emphasis on the spiritual.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2I gotta go. Here she is with candles.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Rikkity: "Let's all not sing for Papa."
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Papa: "Thanks."
RevRandy . . . . .Remember this was on Papa's birthday -
RevRandy . . . . .and the reference is to the lack of vocal ability among some of us on this side
Elissa . . . . .lol rikkity never let me sing
RevRandy . . . . .nor me
TF88 . . . . .lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Elissa . . . . .yeah but you can't, randy lol
RevRandy . . . . .watch out, or I will get the accordion out!
cjlemp . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .and sing!!!!!!
Elissa . . . . .o no not that anything but that lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .I'll pay you to sing without the accordion......
Elissa . . . . .“Here is where the former emphasis on physical starts to fade before an emphasis on the spiritual.”
Elissa . . . . .STARTS to fade
* WhiteTiger offers RR a 120 chord squeezebox ;)
RevRandy . . . . .but as a sort of postscript, Rikkity added some words to this whole discussion of physical and spiritual and the insufficiency of language
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Rikkity: "Someday ask a desert dweller to describe the seashore
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2and she or he will do well with the beach but not even come close with the sea,
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2and will mistake the sea bed of sand for the sea-- missing the water's essence completely.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2O you nomads of the physical desert who wish to bathe in the sea of a spiritual.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2With that, I go to the beach with Papa... his universal beach. Goodbye." (4/11/2000)
Elissa . . . . .i love that analogy
RevRandy . . . . .and it starts to fade when we begin to notice the water around us, not just the sand
Elissa . . . . .yes randy
Hypernoodle . . . . .And when you begin to see the water around you, do you forget the sand as it was alone?
RevRandy . . . . .I don't think we lose what was learned and remembered - we still know the sand, but now in many states
Elissa . . . . .i don't think so... do you, hyper?
Hypernoodle . . . . .:)
Hypernoodle . . . . .no....I do not
WhiteTiger . . . . .that's the tendency, hyper... either/or...
cjlemp . . . . .this is my 1st time here..im not quite following .....but im trying :-)
Hypernoodle . . . . .If you forget what you knew before, you lose parts of the "picture" (not physical)
RevRandy . . . . .where once we might have had one word for sand, now we would know many words that involve sand
Hypernoodle . . . . .right :)
Elissa . . . . .cjlemp, hang in there :)
RevRandy . . . . .as far as we have been told, the process of spiritual complexity is about the retention of all that we have in our parts,
RevRandy . . . . .sorry if we go fast ....
cjlemp . . . . .:-)
Sherman . . . . .It's verrry deeeeep.
RevRandy . . . . .I would invite people who want to go at their own pace, or to see more, to drop by www.spiritualpersistence.com
Elissa . . . . .“If you forget what you knew before, you lose parts of the "picture" (not physical)”... i like that, hyper
Hypernoodle . . . . .thanks :)
cjlemp . . . . .may i ask...you all communicate w/deceased?
michael . . . . .i have been able to
RevRandy . . . . .even in this life, I think it is shown - even as I am 53, I also contain a 5 year old, and a 13 year old, and a 40 year old me.
Elissa . . . . .many of us do cj
Sherman . . . . .I am unable to communicate but would like to.
WhiteTiger . . . . .not me... I'm deaf and blind to the dead
cjlemp . . . . .wow
Hypernoodle . . . . .Not exactly Tiger LOL
RevRandy . . . . .(tiger forgot to pay the spiritual phone bill)
Hypernoodle . . . . .They just won't speak up for you :)
Sherman . . . . .lol RR
Elissa . . . . .well they can see you, wt lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .So you boot them
TF88 . . . . .well, perhaps tiger is doing what I sometimes do...holding the phone upside down ;)
RevRandy . . . . .but most us here either experience it personally, or are open to the idea
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol TF
Elissa . . . . .rofl tf!!!!!
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol... mumbles I can hear from any wino... don't need 'em coming in at odd times and doing it in my ear
cjlemp . . . . .ive tried..but im not able to focus..i get scared
RevRandy . . . . .hello, hello, HELLO HELLLLLLLLLLLO is anybody there???????????????
Hypernoodle . . . . .You really want hordes of answers on that one?
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RevRandy . . . . .but, to acknowledge that it can be scary
RevRandy . . . . .and it does take an ability for many to focus
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Elissa . . . . .an ability to see between the spaces perhaps
cjlemp . . . . .yes..i cant clear my mind
RevRandy . . . . .so maybe now is not the time for you to do it
Hypernoodle . . . . .good one Elissa
TF88 . . . . .everyone is able to focus, just varying periods of time...and like anything else, practice develops focus.
Elissa . . . . .ty :)
cjlemp . . . . .i wish it was though..i really want to
Hypernoodle . . . . .:)
journey . . . . .i believe it takes an honest desire
Sherman . . . . .I'm with you cj. I'm the same way.
Elissa . . . . .yes, journey, and love
WhiteTiger . . . . .looking in the gaps is no big trick... the problem is the same patterns are in all the holes LOL
journey . . . . .everyone can, but do you choose to, is more the point
RevRandy . . . . . 0,1IT IS BREAK TIME ... keep talking .... but we will be back with more from Rikkity in about 10 minutes
TF88 . . . . .recognizing that we are feeling scared though is good...because then we have a chance to figure out what scares us and move past the fear.
Hypernoodle . . . . .My daughter loves the "visitors". I am glad I only have one!
*** RevRandy is now known as RevRandybrb
Elissa . . . . .wt would you explain that after the break please?
WhiteTiger . . . . .ok Elissa... I take a stab at it
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Hypernoodle . . . . .cool..... people to explain the explanation to me Tiger :)
TF88 . . . . .cj...perhaps you "can't" clear your mind because you are having thoughts that actually are needing your attention. After you address those thoughts, you may find you mind is clear.
michael . . . . .CJ have you ever know when a phone would ring or felt something was not right around you
cjlemp . . . . .true TF...i believe that
michael . . . . .you too sherman
TF88 . . . . .CJ, those thoughts may simply be a priority for now...and you may find valuable information from listening to them. :)
cjlemp . . . . .hmm michael...im not sure..
Sherman . . . . .I have feelings that I'm following my path towards communication.
*** RevRandybrb is now known as RevRandy
cjlemp . . . . .im trying to think
michael . . . . .well when you do CJ you'll know that it is to be psychic medium
cjlemp . . . . .i had a session with a medium in feb
RevRandy . . . . .but I like what TF is saying about us finding meaning in what we need to do -- sometimes we look in other places/modes/means to avoid dealing with what is needed
Hypernoodle . . . . .agreed
TF88 . . . . .michael, you might be interested in exploring the sister-site of this site, www.spiritspace.net They offer mediumship classes to help develop mediumship skills.
cjlemp . . . . .but my intentions were "just to have a reading to see what comes thru"
cjlemp . . . . .it turned out to be "right on" but i was so emotional thru it..i didnt understand much till after
Hypernoodle . . . . .the experiences seem to give the "feel" of what it is really like
TF88 . . . . .and like studying a musical instrument, it greatly helps to take lessons with teachers and attend group classes.
Hypernoodle . . . . .more than the reading
Hypernoodle . . . . .studying is great....but until it is assimilated...it is just studying
RevRandy . . . . .amne TF
Hanna . . . . .There are a lot of excellent mediums around.... it is not a gift.. it is an ability that everyone has.. and can learn to use.
Marie1 . . . . .agreed Hanna
journey . . . . .ditto
RevRandy . . . . .like breathing - although some of us have to learn how to do it ... it is part of our being
cjlemp . . . . .so michael..have you seen or heard spirits
Hanna . . . . .The more people that learn how to use it.. the less special it will become.. which is what is needed.
Marie1 . . . . .well Hanna it is unique no matter who uses it. It is being able to build, rather open yourself up to that level of communication.
Hypernoodle . . . . .for sure on the learning to breathe part
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RevRandy . . . . .ok everybody - one big breath .......ahhhhhhh
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol... back on task, now?
Hypernoodle . . . . .:)
RevRandy . . . . .come on back everyone .....
cjlemp . . . . .may i ask who is Rikkity
WhiteTiger . . . . ."allie allie, in free" lol
RevRandy . . . . .Rikkity is the name in spirit of our (Elissa and my) daughter who died in 1995
cjlemp . . . . .oh i see...(im so sorry) she speaks to you often?
RevRandy . . . . .very often
RevRandy . . . . .and sometimes at length (as we are about to see)
Elissabrb . . . . . "looking in the gaps is no big trick... the problem is the same patterns are in all the holes" explain please wt?
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WhiteTiger . . . . .mmmmm... no matter where you go to "look in the spaces between" the blocks of this reality, you find the same stuff... there is an essential pattern/structure that seems to underlie it all
RevRandy . . . . .but will I see the same stuff you see, or will what I see seem consistent for me, and you for you, but not cross perspective?
WhiteTiger . . . . .the patterns are infinitely complex, but the same everywhere, paradoxically
WhiteTiger . . . . .mmmmm
Elissa . . . . .ah i see... but is that spiritual or physical pattern?
WhiteTiger . . . . .depends on the two perspectives, as to whether or not there are intersections of the "line of sight"
WhiteTiger . . . . .both, and much more, Elissa
RevRandy . . . . .if we have a coincidence, then we see the same .... and if not we see differently ...
WhiteTiger . . . . .never known any two to see the same... just similarly
WhiteTiger . . . . .and only in spots ;)
Elissa . . . . .fascinating... my brain is melting lol
cjlemp . . . . .like during my reading, i was told to not feel ashamed for what had happened...2 days later there was a bumper sticker in front of me..it said "not Ashamed" ....is it like that?
RevRandy . . . . .how about back to yesterday's conversation with Rikkity?
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"Let's separate brains from spirit. Take a scalpel. Pull back the anterior lobe and lop it off.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Now you have a brain working at your speed, Mom :P.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But seriously, does anyone believe that spiritual wholeness is related to intellect.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2If so, they can leave now. And boy are they in for a surprise in a future life.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So, we know that the spirit is neither a product nor a function of the brain.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Then why the hell do we use brains to try to describe spirits.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2All we can do is impose the linear thought patterns inherent in brains on something that is not in the brain.”
RevRandy . . . . .ok - everyone - disconnect brains
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol......already done
TF88 . . . . .huh?
WhiteTiger . . . . .hmmmmm... unless we manage to cobble together a method of non-linear thinking
RevRandy . . . . .huh huh?
Elissa . . . . .wha
RevRandy . . . . .ok - let's let the big brains do the talking:
WhiteTiger . . . . .duuuuuuuuuuuuuh... ;)
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"There are many concepts that are beyond our thinking, and to try to think about them with our brains is stupid.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2A poor and limited example: Take out an Atlas. Show him a good time... no no no.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But watch out if he shrugs it all off... aaayyyyeeeeee... Earth as yo-yo.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Anymoo, take out an atlas and find the name of a place you've never heard of.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Try not to notice its country or continent.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Ok, now use your brain to try to describe it... buzzzzz, wrong.”
RevRandy . . . . .(Proof of alleged humor on the other side)
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
WhiteTiger . . . . .*G*
RevRandy . . . . .But seriously, this notion of trying to describe where you've never been in terms of where you have been
Marie1 . . . . .hmm
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WhiteTiger . . . . .lol... like the six blind folks describing the elephant... no two get the same description
Marie1 . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .I am reminded of the tourists who go to a foreign city, stay in an American hotel, eat in the hotel, and fly home, and say that the place was just like at home
Elissa . . . . .lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Marie1 . . . . .sorry, that sounded good and funny WT
RevRandy . . . . .ah - the famous elephant
Elissa . . . . .but at least they can feel the elephant lol
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .but can you describe what you felt?
WhiteTiger . . . . .please... lets not get into touchy feely LOL
RevRandy . . . . .and the elephant can feel them too - it is a two way process then
Elissa . . . . .if it's an interaction, then no one will describe the same thing
Hypernoodle . . . . .I agree
Elissa . . . . .even if they call it the same thing
RevRandy . . . . .but here again is this essential message - watch out when you use the limit, the finite to describe what is beyond your limits, beyond your finite world
TF88 . . . . .however, hearing each other's descriptions helps widen perspective
Hypernoodle . . . . .unless you share it within.....without words
Elissa . . . . .i agree, tf
WhiteTiger . . . . .the limitations of single perspective make "same experience" impossible
WhiteTiger . . . . .good one tf
RevRandy . . . . .TF - if, and only if, all allow each to express what they experience without judgement or a call for agreement
TF88 . . . . .yes, very true randy
Elissa . . . . .none of this is to say we shouldn't keep trying
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2If you have not cognitively experienced it by visit or story or whatever, you might just as well be guessing.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Same with brain and spirit.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2And remember, when you've been somewhere and come home and try to explain it to someone who has never been there,
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2you can't really do it.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So too with brain explanations of spiritual experiences.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2And, in fact, you do great violence to the spiritual essence to try to reduce the sublime to the mundane.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2It's like describing God with human attributes; easy to do but highly demeaning to God, of course,
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2and highly flattering but inaccurate to humans.”
Hypernoodle . . . . .:)
WhiteTiger . . . . .hmmmmm... and is there similar injustice in translating the mundane to the sublime? (personally, I think there is)
Elissa . . . . .wt, i think those 2 are very close
michael . . . . .RevRandy we fear what we can't understand what did u just say?
RevRandy . . . . .WT - I think there is an arrogance in doing that, which distorts the universal -
RevRandy . . . . .to take a fragment and imply the whole ..... dangerous route
RevRandy . . . . .many people fear what they don't understand
RevRandy . . . . .and so try to control it
RevRandy . . . . .and the use of language is one of the surest but subtlest means of control
RevRandy . . . . .(just ask women who were excluded from language for so long)
Elissa . . . . .true
RevRandy . . . . .wt - i think most religions look like a funnel, in which the larger picture is poured out through the little end
RevRandy . . . . .and that little trickle is then called the flow/meaning of life.
WhiteTiger . . . . .agree, RR
Elissa . . . . .nice image rr :)
RevRandy . . . . .And then religion inverts the funnel, and pours that little bit back in, and says as it spreads out at the other end, look, there is the universal.
Elissa . . . . .hahaha
RevRandy . . . . .but it is only a little bit of what flowed in
Hypernoodle . . . . .interesting.....I like that
RevRandy . . . . .ty
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"So hear what people experience and what it means to them, but don't make the details physical or intellectual.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Brains were made to think, not to feel... in a spiritual way. So that's that.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2There is a relationship, not connection. There are always connections, but that word is too simplistic.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Connections, for most, imply physical--like invisible lines between them.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But what if A is related to B and B is related to R and T is related to B. Is A connected to T,
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2or just related one time removed. Ok, here's a quiz.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Your brother has kids. Your kids and his kids are cousins.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But his wife's brother has kids. Are they cousins to your kids.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Are they related without a genetic connection.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Yes, if you define family to include them. Related but not connected.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Relationship is spiritual; connection is physical.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2And when I first spoke about connections you were not ready to sense the difference.”
WhiteTiger . . . . .but then, I have noticed in spirit communications a similar effect... those "over there" insist in applying THEIR rules of conduct when acting here... sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander, I suppose
RevRandy . . . . .just because they are there does not mean they have their acts any better together than we here - since we here are they there -- over time
RevRandy . . . . .Here is the piece about relation, not connection.
Hypernoodle . . . . .good
RevRandy . . . . .as prophesized by wt last hour
WhiteTiger . . . . .:P
Elissa . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .(was that a warning)
Elissa . . . . .or a coincidence?
RevRandy . . . . .relationships are much more fluid than connections
RevRandy . . . . .more subtle
WhiteTiger . . . . .and much more profound and essential
RevRandy . . . . .more "in the eye of the experiencer" than in any linear notion
Elissa . . . . .yep
Elissa . . . . .but i'm starting to wonder what's next lol
WhiteTiger . . . . .mmmmm... sort of the concept/experience, stripped of the distracting details
RevRandy . . . . .often, when people speak of seeing patterns, I think they mean relationships, but they harden them to patterns to fit physical thought processes
RevRandy . . . . .just as many of us gave up on math with calculus (or even before) when we could no longer have definite patterns, but only relationships that flowed through time and space
WhiteTiger . . . . .ack! not math
Hypernoodle . . . . .Abstract Algebra :(
RevRandy . . . . .see - I knew you would understand
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .fields, rings, systems .......
Elissa . . . . .what do they flow through when there is no time or space? *sigh*
RevRandy . . . . .webs,
RevRandy . . . . .must they flow through a physical thing (time, space)
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"These concepts will continue to expand, for even this is a poor version of what will be apparent at a greater complexity.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2For example, while life seems very diverse on Earth it is still all based on cellular existence--and I don't mean phones.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But what of life beyond cellular existence. Hey, it's a big universe out there.”
Marie1 . . . . .but is space not spiritual also?
Elissa . . . . .space is a physical concept
WhiteTiger . . . . .space is physical, imo
Hypernoodle . . . . .yes!
Hypernoodle . . . . .beyond reality
Hypernoodle . . . . .(ours anyway :)
WhiteTiger . . . . .mmmmmm... or perhaps reality without the training wheels?
Hypernoodle . . . . .:)
Elissa . . . . .lol wt
RevRandy . . . . .we use space to keep everything from happening at the same place; time to keep it all from happening at the same time - but it is all at the same
RevRandy . . . . .but our minds are not programmed (genetically) to perceive that way
Hypernoodle . . . . .But it is there!
TF88 . . . . .and then we have me, who thinks of time AS space :)
RevRandy . . . . .we have created a world view that our brains can understand ... even though it be but a small piece of it all
RevRandy . . . . .TF - I am spacey most of the time
WhiteTiger . . . . .yes, RR :) all that can be, was or is, simply is... we just have to dip our cups in the ocean... and we never have mor than one cupful
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Marie1 . . . . .grrr
RevRandy . . . . .yep WT
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Marie1 . . . . .if space is a physical concept, then what concept is spiritual?
RevRandy . . . . .yes Marie ... you growled
Marie1 . . . . .yes i did uncle :|
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2"We use our spirits to understand spirit.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Recognize that you won't get it while you are at this physically-based level.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2You are moving there but not there yet. Me neither. Ok, enough.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2Look, if you take that atlas place, you know your words don't do it justice;
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2but if then you say: 'I will give up on it,' you will never get there.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2And know you'd have to start somewhere and be aimed somewhere.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2The aim may be inaccurate, but intra-journey course corrections can be done.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2You'll never get to the fork 100 miles down the road unless you start down the road, see.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2But but but BUT remember that whatever symbols or words you use do not contain the essence.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2In this spiritual level we always see as through a glass dimly,
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2but that is true of all spiritual levels until reunion in All That Is.”
WhiteTiger . . . . .yes!
WhiteTiger . . . . .the symbol is not the thing
Elissa . . . . .can i get an aaaaaaaaaaamen!
WhiteTiger . . . . ."the map is NOT the territory
Marie1 . . . . .AMEN
RevRandy . . . . .it is just a symbol that should reawaken an experience
journey . . . . .i wondered if you saw Marie's question?
RevRandy . . . . .AMNE
Elissa . . . . .llo
Marie1 . . . . .i give up journey...lol
RevRandy . . . . .Marie - speak again please
Hypernoodle . . . . .And that, Tiger, is what we have to overcome right?
WhiteTiger . . . . .lysdexics of the world, UNTIE! ;)
Marie1 . . . . .plus i forgot my question
WhiteTiger . . . . .right hyper :) the words are just pointers... can't do literal and get there :)
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
Elissa . . . . .i love it!
TF88 . . . . .marie's question is the point of this whole discussion, when we get it, we're gone.
Marie1 . . . . .Marie1 . . . . .if space is a physical concept, then what concept is spiritual?
journey . . . . .Marie asked if space is a physical concept, then what is a spiritual concept?
journey . . . . .oops, trying to be helpful
RevRandy . . . . .aha
Elissa . . . . .if space is a physical concept, then what concept is spiritual?
Marie1 . . . . .gone where TF...lol
RevRandy . . . . .ok I think we have it
Elissa . . . . .that's marie's question (i think)
Hypernoodle . . . . .bet we got the question
Marie1 . . . . .oh thanks....yes it is
Elissa . . . . .ok, one more time! lol
Hypernoodle . . . . .hehe
Hypernoodle . . . . .if space......
RevRandy . . . . .now as for the answer .......well
Marie1 . . . . .ohoh, don't like the sound of well...
RevRandy . . . . .if we knew the answer to that, Marie, we would not be here .... we would have moved on
Marie1 . . . . .well i am stubborn, there has to be an answer to that
Elissa . . . . .we can get hints and glimpses, but not the full concepts
Marie1 . . . . .at least a physical answer
WhiteTiger . . . . .hmmmmm... not sure I can go along with that one
RevRandy . . . . .we are beginning to change our focus, so we may get glimpses of an answer in our deepest experiences of the transcendent (That which transcends the physical)
* Hypernoodle is trying to be quiet now, Tiger LOL
RevRandy . . . . .if it is a physical answer, it is not a spiritual one
* WhiteTiger watches hyper swell like a balloon
Marie1 . . . . .if there is no answer, then where did we perceive the idea that the spirit world was a filled with space?
RevRandy . . . . .there may be parallel understandings between physical and spiritual
* Elissa looks around for a pin
RevRandy . . . . .I don't think it is filled with space - I don't even know if it is filled
RevRandy . . . . .(unlike hyper)
Elissa . . . . .marie, space is just our physical word for what we can't describe
* Marie1 hides before she gets pinned by Elissa
Hypernoodle . . . . .lolol
Marie1 . . . . .grrr
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So, don't give up on trying to express the inexpressible.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2It points you in a probable direction;
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2but don't make those expressions dogma that keep you from seeing new paths and choices and opportunities along the way.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2I would be pissed if someone said, 'Rikkity has the truth.'
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2I would be happy if someone said, 'Rikkity opened me to my own wider vision.' And since you are losing it, I better go." (4/15/2000)
Elissa . . . . .wild bunch tonight! lol
Marie1 . . . . .then i challenge that
Elissa . . . . .challenge away, o fair poodle-face
RevRandy . . . . .Marie - you growled again ....
Marie1 . . . . .why do we need to describe it that way if it is not what is really there?
WhiteTiger . . . . .space is a referent for the concept of interval... spirit seems to have dispensed with the need for interval/separation
Marie1 . . . . .(yes my beloved family, i am heated)
Marie1 . . . . .(but not in heat..lol)
RevRandy . . . . .because we do not have words to express what is there - so we use the term that best connotes the emptiness we know about it
Hypernoodle . . . . .Explosion imminent!
Elissa . . . . .interval... interesting...
RevRandy . . . . .lol
Marie1 . . . . .interesting point WT...you got my attention
* Elissa pushes her chair back from the puter for the explosion
Hypernoodle . . . . .lolol
RevRandy . . . . .one of the ways we experience control is by having everything not appearing as happening at once in one place
Hypernoodle . . . . .but it does in many instances!
Marie1 . . . . .i redirect that energy to the water to be recycled
Elissa . . . . .ooooooo
WhiteTiger . . . . .Elissa- is not "space" the interval we perceive between "real" bits? And we use that word to tag the concept?
Marie1 . . . . .now i like that idea of interval and separation.
RevRandy . . . . .but remember it is only a human shorthand way of expressing something else
Elissa . . . . .makes sense intuitively, wt
Elissa . . . . .but what's in the intervals? :)
Hypernoodle . . . . .yes!
WhiteTiger . . . . .yes RR :) a convenience for coping :)
Hypernoodle . . . . .What is there?
Hypernoodle . . . . .this is great!
TF88 . . . . .ahhhhhh, the rests in the music!
journey . . . . .so the basic jist of this is that we in the physical will never understand the concept of spiritual?
Elissa . . . . .is that like "who's on first"?
Hypernoodle . . . . .Thanks Tiger!
journey . . . . .that is the way it seems you are saying this unless i just need to reread some more
WhiteTiger . . . . .separation is the substance of the intervals
RevRandy . . . . .little intervals --- and in the little intervals ...littler intervals -- it is intervals all the way down
Elissa . . . . .yes tf! the silences
TF88 . . . . .an integral part of the whole
RevRandy . . . . .or else we would have one piece of music that is all one long note (oppps, I think Cage did that)
Hypernoodle . . . . .And what if we just don't hear what is in the silences/rests?
WhiteTiger . . . . .yes... an absence, built into the structure... like rooms in a building :)
Elissa . . . . .journey, we move toward understanding, but we understand we can't get it completely
Hypernoodle . . . . .but the rooms are not empty
TF88 . . . . .if we don't hear it, we don't "get" it
TF88 . . . . .we've missed the point
RevRandy . . . . .yes, journey - this level of spiritual existence, of being physical with a growing spiritual sense, is about making the transition from the physical to the spiritual
journey . . . . .well, i don't know if i believe that at this point in my path, but i certainly strive for understanding
RevRandy . . . . .and when we get it, we are no longer physical - and move on to another level of complexity
Elissa . . . . .hmmm... maybe if we don't hear it, we really are hearing it
michael . . . . .REV RANDY control do you mean time repeating it's self as in a time space distortion
WhiteTiger . . . . .hyper- they are empty of walls... and here, the physical bits are the walls interrupting the intervals, just as much as the intervals separate the walls ;)
Hypernoodle . . . . .Or it is beyond the level at which we hear at that time?
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RevRandy . . . . .I mean control as a way to impose our understandings on systems beyond our design
Hypernoodle . . . . .but that sets parameters
michael . . . . .time space and the spirit are all one
RevRandy . . . . .or not
WhiteTiger . . . . .don't ask me hyper... I didnt build it, I'm just trying to deal with it :P
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .and there's the paradox - when you try to say what they are, for sure, you can't capture it with words from the physical realm
Hypernoodle . . . . .What if the boundaries were removed?
michael . . . . .the other side has no time - to ours it is endless
RevRandy . . . . .what kind of spackle do you use on spiritual walls when there are holes in them?
Hypernoodle . . . . .and are there even walls?
WhiteTiger . . . . .ecto-putty, what else? ;)
Hypernoodle . . . . .lol
michael . . . . .up is down left is right
RevRandy . . . . .big hole to spackle then
Hypernoodle . . . . .but that is back to my question, Tiger
RevRandy . . . . .ROFLMAO, wt
journey . . . . .but wait a sec here, if we came from spiritual existence and go back to spiritual existence would we not then hold the knowledge inside ourselves somewhere to be rediscovered in the physical?
Elissa . . . . .how about if the boundaries were seen and then seen for what they are and then seen through (instead of removed)
Hypernoodle . . . . .yes!
Hanna . . . . .hmmmm.. but Rev.. isn't it possible that by trying to share your own 'knowing'.. with whatever limited words you have.. that you unlock a knowing in another person.. and then you've gotten past the needs for words on that particular issue?
WhiteTiger . . . . .bingo, journey :)
journey . . . . .or is that the point at which we pass back to spirit?
Hypernoodle . . . . .That is exactly right, Elissa!
Elissa . . . . .o cool! :)
RevRandy . . . . .yes - hanna - that's why we share, but at the same time acknowledge the limitations of that sharing
RevRandy . . . . .back to what Rikkity said at the end
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2So, don't give up on trying to express the inexpressible.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2It points you in a probable direction;
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2but don't make those expressions dogma that keep you from seeing new paths and choices and opportunities along the way.
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2I would be pissed if someone said, 'Rikkity has the truth.'
RevRandy . . . . . 0,2I would be happy if someone said, 'Rikkity opened me to my own wider vision.' And since you are losing it, I better go." (4/15/2000)
Hanna . . . . .exactly.. it just felt like the discussion was veering to not even trying to use words.. don't even bother, cuz it wasn't worth it.
RevRandy . . . . .By the way, she was referring to elissa at the end -- but it fits you, it is for you too
Hanna . . . . .:P
Elissa . . . . .:P
RevRandy . . . . .better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol... I like that :) only ONE has "the truth", imo... all the rest of us are doing our best with one cupful at a time
journey . . . . .ty hanna, it felt that way to me too
RevRandy . . . . .o no, keep on keeping on, folks
Elissa . . . . .it did to me, too at first... that's why she said that last part lol
RevRandy . . . . .but don't mistake here for eternity, or bits of understanding for the complete picture
Hypernoodle . . . . .Words are not always necessary.....but often helpful
Hanna . . . . .Isn't the whole point to try and use our limited physicalness.. our words, our need to control.. and STILL figure out ... learn to re-member to our spiritual existence?
TF88 . . . . .wt, what do you mean 'only ONE has the truth"?
RevRandy . . . . .we participate in both, but are not one with it all
Elissa . . . . .giving up is losing direction and makes progress impossible
Hypernoodle . . . . .A good one to remember, Elissa (and Rikkity)
WhiteTiger . . . . .tf- the "ONE" that put here all that is... the creator
TF88 . . . . .thanks for clarifying what you mean WT
RevRandy . . . . .and as a male, I would remind you, you may not know where you are, but you are never lost
RevRandy . . . . .never lost! (So, don't ask for directions)
Elissa . . . . .yes hanna, but not to think we can get the whole picture or translate it into physical terms
Hanna . . . . .uh huh.. it just takes longer to get where you're going Rev
WhiteTiger . . . . .for me, there is the creator, and there are all us plebes
Elissa . . . . .lol
RevRandy . . . . .wt, but I think the whole cannot exist without little ole me, and I cannot exist separate from that all-that-is
RevRandy . . . . .no separation for me
WhiteTiger . . . . .RR- of course... cause the base it all rests on is conceptual... and devoid of interval ;)
RevRandy . . . . .o dear, the trusty old clock, measuring out linear portions of time/space continuum, says it is 11 pm
RevRandy . . . . .and closing time (last call folks)
Elissa . . . . .wow! this one went fast!
RevRandy . . . . .zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom
Hypernoodle . . . . .Thanks so much Tiger for getting me to come here
WhiteTiger . . . . .Elissa- time flies when yer befuddled ;)
Hypernoodle . . . . .and thanks to Rikkity, Elissa and RR :)
RevRandy . . . . .and we need to let you know that we will not be back for a while - our next session will be on Mother's Day
Elissa . . . . .too true wt LOL
WhiteTiger . . . . .*G*
RevRandy . . . . .lol wt
TF88 . . . . .when's mother's day please?
Elissa . . . . .may 14... and it will be a VERY special evening!
RevRandy . . . . .Rikkity has promised it
WhiteTiger . . . . .hmmmmmm
Hypernoodle . . . . .Mark your calendar, TigerDude
Elissa . . . . .so thank you all for a stimulating and very fast discussion! i'm breathless lol
*** Carol (gezobezo@***.epix.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa . . . . .and carol's late
RevRandy . . . . .Carol sneaks in at the last minute
* Carol hangs head
WhiteTiger . . . . .typical pusher's trick... get ya hooked, then withhold for a while :P
RevRandy . . . . .but is welcomed with open arms
Carol . . . . .oh, thank you! lol, sorry
RevRandy . . . . .at least we don't do bait and switch
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa . . . . . 0,6!Elissa rainbow.mid 6,0 :o)
WhiteTiger . . . . .lol... fun convos here :) ya run a good shop, RR, lisa :)
Marie1 . . . . .what? no more chat until May 14?
Marie1 . . . . .no way
Elissa . . . . .((((((wt)))))) thanks for your thoughts tonight! and (((((((hyper))))) too!
Marie1 . . . . .what will i do about challenging things? oh gosh, i will scream
Hypernoodle . . . . .welcome :)
Elissa . . . . .marie, we always have the message board lol
TF88 . . . . .night everyone
Hypernoodle . . . . .too physical, Marie :)
Elissa . . . . .nite tf
RevRandy . . . . .a meaningful Passover and Easter to you all
Sherman . . . . .Good Night all!
Elissa . . . . .nite all
journey . . . . .I am heading to bed folks, bless you all and thanks for a most interesting evening! nite
Hypernoodle . . . . .. . . . .night :)
* Hanna waves goodnight to all... stay safe! :)
Session Close: Sun Apr 16 23:08:49 2000

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the Rev Dr Randolph and Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed., LPC, NCC
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