log040900

Session Start: Sun Apr 09 20:53:48 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"The Afterlife" 2,9Sunday 2,11April 9 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

RevRandy. . . . .WELCOME ALL TO SPIRITUAL PERSISTENCE
RevRandy. . . . .as we begin, we always offer a chance for those who are new to find out more about Spiritual Persistence by way of a short intro from Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .and I am assuming there may be some of you who would like that
Diana. . . . .thanks I am new
Pennybeme. . . . .me too
Elissa. . . . .ok, here's why you and we are here:
Elissa. . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa. . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa. . . . .Williamsburg, VA.
Elissa. . . . . I am a writer, medium, and published poet, and
Elissa. . . . .am currently a Masters candidate in Community Counseling
Elissa. . . . .at the College of William and Mary.
Elissa. . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa. . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa. . . . .on August 20, 1995.
Elissa. . . . .She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa. . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa. . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa. . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for that body of
Elissa. . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa. . . . .Ponder.
Elissa. . . . .It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa. . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa. . . . .and death, of connection, and of our place
Elissa. . . . .in the universe.
Elissa. . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa. . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives. We are here to
Elissa. . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore
Elissa. . . . . what it means
Elissa. . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa. . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa. . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa. . . . . or email Randy or me anytime. Thanks
Elissa. . . . .for coming...and again, welcome! Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
RevRandy. . . . .before we start, we also offer a simple invocation
RevRandy. . . . .and invite you into its spirit:
RevRandy. . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . .Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . .And guided in all ways gracious. Blessed Be
Elissa. . . . .amen~
TF88. . . . .amen
Diana. . . . .amen
Pennybeme. . . . .amen
RevRandy. . . . .I feel like I want to make some opening
RevRandy. . . . .remarks before sharing one of those points to ponder
RevRandy. . . . .In this view of life and death that Rikkity has shared
RevRandy. . . . .we are all in a recurring cycle of life and death
RevRandy. . . . .of moving from spiritual to physical to spiritual to physical
RevRandy. . . . .over a number of different existences
RevRandy. . . . .all in the process of learning and remembering what we need in order to fulfill who/what we are
RevRandy. . . . .as spiritual beings.
RevRandy. . . . .When we have fulfilled that spiritual entity that is us, we are capable of combining with other fulfilled entities
RevRandy. . . . .to form more complex spiritual entities
RevRandy. . . . .so, there is no single life, no single death
RevRandy. . . . .but a pattern, a process of being
RevRandy. . . . .of connection and separation
RevRandy. . . . .across many lives
RevRandy. . . . .In this process, what persists is our spiritual being; our physical being may take different forms.
RevRandy. . . . .One of the Points Rikkity shared was this:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"People often picture afterlife as a time and place of continuity.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2But it can't be, unless life is seen as whole.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2You change your venue, but not your being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2The being changes in all states; you can change while alive and dead.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Death is not a fulfillment, just another setting for being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Think about that." (12/28/95 - G#9)
RevRandy. . . . .Here is a call to realise that death will not be any more continuous than life - and vice versa
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RevRandy. . . . .Unless we can sense the larger picture that extends before and beyond life, and before and beyond death, then we get trapped in a single place.
RevRandy. . . . .And she is also saying that death is not an end - not a fulfillment - but one more step in a process.
RevRandy. . . . .What does this point raise up in you?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"People often picture afterlife as a time and place of continuity.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2But it can't be, unless life is seen as whole.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2You change your venue, but not your being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2The being changes in all states; you can change while alive and dead.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Death is not a fulfillment, just another setting for being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Think about that." (12/28/95 - G#9)
RevRandy. . . . .this raise anything for any of you?
TF88. . . . .I like "you change your venue, but not your being."
TF88. . . . .it's a great way to put it.
Diana. . . . .interesting
Elissa. . . . ."Death is not a fulfillment, just another setting for being."
Elissa. . . . .this speaks to me of a connection between this side and the other...
Elissa. . . . .our journey is about both sides--not just finishing with one and going on
Elissa. . . . .to become finished in the next
Jackie. . . . .Does life have to be seen as whole here first before one can "be" in the other setting?
Jackie. . . . .or that both together is the whole?
RevRandy. . . . .I think that if we do not see life here holistically, and as intrinsically as connected to the afterlife, we only get pieces of the picture
Elissa. . . . .both together are the whole
Jackie. . . . .I see
Elissa. . . . .but we cannot see life as a whole if we don't see both sides connected
Elissa. . . . .yep
RevRandy. . . . .but look carefully at what Rikkity says - "unless life is seen as whole"
RevRandy. . . . .not
RevRandy. . . . ."as A whole"
RevRandy. . . . .she is saying, IMHO, that we are not talking about finding/seeing a thing, some set piece
RevRandy. . . . .but about sensing the continuity
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RevRandy. . . . .ooooowwwww, deni is here
Deni. . . . .hi :)
Elissa. . . . .((((((deni-face))))))
Elissa. . . . .life as a whole contains the concept of the spirit continuing its journey after life
Elissa. . . . .if we think we have to get it all in one shot here,
Elissa. . . . .then we're not seeing the whole picture
Elissa. . . . .of either life or afterlife
RevRandy. . . . .and also life as whole says to me that it is not a subset of what will come later - somehow less meaningful, less whole than the afterlife
Elissa. . . . .right
RevRandy. . . . .being alive has its own value, not dependent on what will happen after life
Jackie. . . . .I think I have it now
RevRandy. . . . .and being dead has its own value, not dependent on what will happen after a return to life
Elissa. . . . .explain it to us, jackie lol
RevRandy. . . . .time for a snap quiz
Jackie. . . . .I'm getting the "whole" picture, lol
Elissa. . . . .alright!
RevRandy. . . . .tonight, in preparation for this conversation,
RevRandy. . . . .Rikkity gave us some instructions
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"So listen. For tonight 3 things need to be emphasized:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"1. It's not that different here-- just way less physical, ha.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"2. Any vision of afterlife without growth and change in it is just static
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2(pun intended), and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"3. You wouldn't believe it until you fully comprehend it, but when you do
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2you're out of here. Getting it is getting on with it. Therefore, no one at
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2this spiritual level--dead or alive--comprehends it fully. So when someone
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2says they know the answer--and the whole answer--you know they are wrong.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"And with that, the Stardog 'ARF' and the Cosmic Traveler wink. . . . .go forth to
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2battle the forces of solemnity armed with jokes, growls 'rrrrrrr', and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2whoopee cushions."
RevRandy. . . . .And I want to think around these three points with you (see, Rikkity, I CAN follow orders)
Elissa. . . . .rikkity is smiling wryly lol
RevRandy. . . . .as long as she is not smiling ryely
RevRandy. . . . .Point 1 - It's not that different here -- just way less physical, ha
RevRandy. . . . .much of our physical worry is about the physical dimension of the afterlife
RevRandy. . . . .as we hear traditional images of things - like suffering and the end of suffering
RevRandy. . . . .but if the afterlife is not physical, then all of the encumbrances of the physical are gone
RevRandy. . . . .and also we are freed of using our energy on them
RevRandy. . . . .Which, I think poses the first problem of the afterlife -
RevRandy. . . . .we are so, so, so accustomed to thinking in physical terms, that we find it hard to think otherwise
RevRandy. . . . .especially since we generally use our physical brain capacities more than our spirit capacity
RevRandy. . . . .and all of our being calls out to do it - we want to "see" them again, we want to "touch" them again, to "hear" their voices - to picture them living in some ideal place
RevRandy. . . . .but can you picture a spiritual version of all of that
RevRandy. . . . .hmmmmm
RevRandy. . . . .that's tough, I think
RevRandy. . . . .any thoughts on what a spiritual version would be like
Deni. . . . .it's a perception thing..we have a physical perception and a spiritual or BEYOND ..perception
RevRandy. . . . .but we get so caught up in the physical one
Elissa. . . . .yes, it takes a change of focus away from the physical
Deni. . . . .spiritual version would be very individual...since we all travel our own unique spiritual path
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Deni. . . . .physical perception is safe
Elissa. . . . .a spiritual version is what a medium experiences
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RevRandy. . . . .I think I hear people speak of it when they tell me that they sensed their loved ones, but cannot put specific words to it
Jackie. . . . .for those people who have experienced afterdeath communications with actually seeing an image of someone, or sensing their presence, how would you explain that
RevRandy. . . . .translation
Elissa. . . . .i see, but like a distant image in a mirror
Elissa. . . . .i hear, sometimes clearly the spirit's voice, but sometimes just the words in my voice
zim. . . . .i have actually been visited by our son -45 days after his passing
Elissa. . . . .i experience touch, but it is an INTERNAL touch rather than external
Elissa. . . . .great zim!
zim. . . . .My son hugged me so hard that i thought my ribs would break
Elissa. . . . .awww that must have felt wonderful!
RevRandy. . . . .and when we experience those physical things, of seeing or touching, is this them or us ... or them projecting their spiritual being in a way they know we can perceive
TF88. . . . .we experience in a way that we can understand
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RevRandy. . . . .oooooooo, those hugs are so great!
zim. . . . .Its all in a book by DrLouis LaGrand --Messages and Miracles on page 149- 154
RevRandy. . . . .TF - yep, it has to be within a symbol system we understand
Elissa. . . . .we don't really know, randy but they do show us what we can understand or translate
TF88. . . . .and as we increase our "vocabulary" there are more ways for us to experience
Elissa. . . . .we can't understand what we can't understand LOL
RevRandy. . . . .yes - experience breeds experiences it seems
Elissa. . . . .yes, tf, exactly
Elissa. . . . .zim, i met louis a couple of days ago
RevRandy. . . . .part of that growing vocabulary then allows us to see that we had other communications before, but we did not recognise them
Jackie. . . . .twice I have known that family members have died--exactly when and saw one and both were 600 miles away, How would you explain those experiences.
RevRandy. . . . .you were radically open to them, and they to you
Elissa. . . . .distance doesn't matter, jackie... we do readings on the internet and space has no effect at all
Elissa. . . . .space is physical, not spiritual
RevRandy. . . . .(now if they were 625 miles away .......)
Elissa. . . . .lol
zim. . . . .correct Elissa
Jackie. . . . .very funny
Deni. . . . .spiritual-ness is more than the ability to communicate to spirit...it's the knowledge or rather the gathering OF KNOWLEDGE that energy exists in many different levels
Elissa. . . . .yes, deni
RevRandy. . . . .what E said, - we get caught in the web of physical thinking
Elissa. . . . .did i say that? :)
RevRandy. . . . .you did - in Paragraph 29, on page 546, line 64, words 4-7
Elissa. . . . .hahaha ok, i must have forgotten... i say so many things
RevRandy. . . . .Deni - this points back to what Rikkity said about seeing life as whole - many energies all integrated
RevRandy. . . . .part of the trick for me has been to move beyond having walls/separators between aspects of being
RevRandy. . . . .and understanding that all the energies flow around us all the time
RevRandy. . . . .and just because we cannot see them does not mean they are not there (hey, can't see radio waves either)
Jackie. . . . .well, the reason I brought up distance was that I knew before other family members who were in the same building, so when they called me I already knew
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RevRandy. . . . .spiritual connection can beat physical connection
Elissa. . . . .that must have been an amazing experience for you, jackie
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"So listen. For tonight 3 things need to be emphasized:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"1. It's not that different here-- just way less physical, ha.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"2. Any vision of afterlife without growth and change in it is just static
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2(pun intended), and
keerxa. . . . .what is the consensus about after life
RevRandy. . . . .consensus - couldn't live and die without it
Elissa. . . . .time and space are physical realities... we so often try to fit physical constructs into spiritual realities
Jackie. . . . .at the time I tried to deny the experience with all my might, I did not want to believe it. Later, when I found out it was true, it was like going through a dreaded time twice, for a while it scared me
keerxa. . . . .what is that jackie
Elissa. . . . .yes, a lot of people are scared by those experiences--they don't 'fit' what is expected
Jackie. . . . .then I tried to figure out why I experienced it and not other members of the family, should I tell them
Jackie. . . . .would they believe it
Jackie. . . . .or think I was crazy
keerxa. . . . .tell them what
TF88. . . . .it doesn't matter jackie, if they believe or not
RevRandy. . . . .(Jackie had a knowledge of a death of loved one at a distance while those close by did not even know it yet)
Elissa. . . . .Jackie. . . . .twice I have known that family members have died--exactly when and saw one and both were 600 miles away, How would you explain those experiences.
zim. . . . .Jackie I have talked to over 400 people who have had adcs' and believe me many have them and will talk about them
Jackie. . . . .then what was the significance of it
keerxa. . . . .oh you mean a warning??
keerxa. . . . .in my family we receive warnings when a loved one is going to pass
RevRandy. . . . .not premonition, but cognition
Elissa. . . . .the significance of it was the significance of it to you, jackie
Elissa. . . . .is it a warning... or is it just a knowing?
RevRandy. . . . .(in other words - could you change the outcome, or will it happen anyway)

TF88. . . . .good distinction Randy
Elissa. . . . .we have such a ego-centered way of looking at things---maybe it didn't happen for you, but because you were open to it
RevRandy. . . . .I am always amazed by what I find when I travel - I travel a lot by AMTRAK, and in the dining car I am seated with three people I do not know. and when I share this work with them, usually two look uncomfortable, and the other wants to engage me in a long, deep discussion about experiences long kept locked inside
Jackie. . . . .over the years that has changed, at first I thought that the person didn't want to be alone, she had always said that was her greatest fear--dying alone (and she did--physically, but part of her was with me)
Jackie. . . . .later I thought that since we were so close and that she knew I would be devastated that she was trying to ease the blow,
Jackie. . . . .now I think maybe she was trying to reassure me that she is okay, and also that there is an afterlife
keerxa. . . . .my cousin was in the hospital dying and she did die and they brought her back around the same time she walked by my window to the door i got up to see who was there and there was no one and no foot prints in the snow later that day when i went to the hospital i found out she had been near death at that same time
RevRandy. . . . .how did that feel Keerxa
Elissa. . . . .when that happens, it's a special experience, keerxa... but i believe it's the interaction between you and the spirit, not something the spirit is doing 'to' or 'for' you
TF88. . . . .as Randy pointed out to me many months ago (thanks randy) sometimes we know something simply because it's happening somewhere.
keerxa. . . . .i knew it was her because about a week earlier someone knocked on my kitchen window where it was too high form the ground to be reached
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Elissa. . . . .jackie, then that's what it is
RevRandy. . . . .hello blue
Elissa. . . . .((((((blue))))))
keerxa. . . . .they often do we just need to be more aware
bluelight. . . . .hi elissa Rev Randy Rickitty everyone :D
TF88. . . . .can't hear the radio unless we decide to listen ;)
RevRandy. . . . .and we need to be open to what it means for us!!!! There is no one, official, sanctioned meaning to what happens
Jackie. . . . .so whatever is my perception is my reality
RevRandy. . . . .don't ask - is this right? but ask, what does this mean to me
Elissa. . . . .yes, jackie
RevRandy. . . . .it better be yours - you wouldn't want to live with someone else's reality
keerxa. . . . .about a month ago someone turned on my kitchen tap while i was sitting at the table reading trying to get my attention i was alone in the house at the time
RevRandy. . . . .keerxa - you live a busy life!!!!!
RevRandy. . . . .how does all this feel to you?
zim. . . . .ask how can you help others who are in the grieving process by your experiences
keerxa. . . . .my whole family receives warnings that’s what they call it - it comes in dreams too
Sherman. . . . .Keerxa, you seem very open to ADC, how does one begin to tune into this?
TF88. . . . .it's nice they are vocal about it keerxa
keerxa. . . . .i really don't know its just always been there for me and my family
RevRandy. . . . . 4,2(While y'all go on talking - Elissa and I will be taking a short break for about 8.463 minutes and then be back with more SP)
Elissa. . . . .bbbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Elissa. . . . .i had the most amazing experience at the conference i just went to
Elissa. . . . .i met the counselor who was at the hospital the morning ericka died. i hadn't known her name...
Elissa. . . . .just knew she was kind and gentle and empathetic. we were in a group of
Elissa. . . . .14 people, introducing ourselves. i said who i was and that i was
Elissa. . . . .from williamsburg and my daughter had died in a car accident...
Elissa. . . . .and when we got to her on the other side of the table
Elissa. . . . .she just looked at me with tears in her eyes and said,
Elissa. . . . ."i was there that morning with you"
Elissa. . . . .the whole class just stopped in silence
bluelight. . . . .{{{{Elissa}}}}
Jackie. . . . .((((((Elissa)))))))
TF88. . . . .how moving Elissa :)
Elissa. . . . .thank you... a part of the past came back to me and i'm still feeling the effects
bluelight. . . . .there r so many 'first times' afterwards
RevRandy. . . . .and you needed to meet her, it would seem
Elissa. . . . .yes i did... thought about her and wondered who she was
Elissa. . . . .but then again, that's the way my life goes! lol
Marie1. . . . .{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{elissa}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
bluelight. . . . .she must have needed to meet u too Elissa
Elissa. . . . .that's true blue
Marie1. . . . .sometimes i think we think about the people we will meet before we meet them
keerxa. . . . .this last year i was close to death with my last child i had spoke to my sister and she had a dream about me she told me that mother wanted to visit me mother is dead shortly after i went to the hospital
Elissa. . . . .so, on with SP
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"2. Any vision of afterlife without growth and change in it is just static
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2(pun intended), and
RevRandy. . . . .one of the images in our culture is that life is about change, and that afterlife is about constancy
RevRandy. . . . .but here Rikkity is reminding us that growth and change do not stop with death
RevRandy. . . . .if the other side is the spiritual side, the side of our growing into our full beings, then it would hardly be a place of standing still
RevRandy. . . . .it is as if we try to freeze the person who has died for our own sake, and not let them move on, change, grow
TF88. . . . .Yes, we have a tendency to picture our loved ones, sitting and waiting for us. we also tend to think they have all the answers.
Marie1. . . . .something else about growth and change, is that we must not try to control either!
RevRandy. . . . .and denial of change is one way to attempt control
Elissa. . . . .we get stuck with the image of them as they were rather than as who they are... it's so hard to imagine that in spirit they are not the same as they were physically
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TF88. . . . .I wrote about this very thing today on the ADC board
keerxa. . . . .we all had the same dream once in my dream i told my sister our father was going to die and i remember her being very upset with me in the dream she had the same dream and told me she was mad at me for telling her that in her dream
Elissa. . . . .yes tf! i was so sure rikkity would give me all the answers i wanted... including winning lottery numbers LOL
RevRandy. . . . .think about this scenario -
RevRandy. . . . .we and a loved one are 20 when s/he dies. We live to be 90 - do we really expect that s/he will be sitting there waiting for us as a 20 year old --
RevRandy. . . . .if it is a journey, there has to be motion
bluelight. . . . .i don't believe anyone can hold them back tho no matter how much the grieving
keerxa. . . . .ive had dreams of my grandmother who passed on she seems to be younger like in her 30's
keerxa. . . . .she was in her 70's when she passed over
Elissa. . . . .yes keerxa, not like you knew her when she was old... that's part of it
bluelight. . . . .i believe they dip in and out of our world but no one can hold anyone back
TF88. . . . .only we can hold ourselves back
bluelight. . . . .no i'm talking about spirits being held back ..many think this
RevRandy. . . . .yes TF - and how would we feel if the dead tried to hold us back!!!!!
Elissa. . . . .we can't hold them back blue, at least not without their cooperation
bluelight. . . . .that's a point E
keerxa. . . . .they are always here
bluelight. . . . .never thot about cooperation :0
RevRandy. . . . .but, it is easy to say there is growth and change - how easy is it to really carry that in us - in our thinking, feeling, knowing
TF88. . . . .the "we" I meant was both physical and spiritual...i see them as us and us as we...or at least i try to LOL
TF88. . . . .us as them...sheesh.
bluelight. . . . .lol tf
Elissa. . . . .but what do they really look like spiritually? we can't understand that because we're physical
RevRandy. . . . .I like us as we, TF
TF88. . . . .:)
bluelight. . . . .in a dream they trigger a 'look' we'll recognize
Sherman. . . . .Im signing off now. It's been a pleasure meeting all you. (As you may have noticed - I'm new here but enjoyed immensely)
RevRandy. . . . .E - what a great segue - to Rikkity's point 3
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"3. You wouldn't believe it until you fully comprehend it, but when you do
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2you're out of here. Getting it is getting on with it. Therefore, no one at
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2this spiritual level--dead or alive--comprehends it fully. So when someone
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2says they know the answer--and the whole answer--you know they are wrong.”
TF88. . . . .what I wrote about today E, was my brother in law showing his mother what he "really" is.
bluelight. . . . .well now i'll know what to tell the guy who says he has all the answers !
RevRandy. . . . .This is most interesting to me
RevRandy. . . . .it speaks of our inability to figure it all out and still be here at this spiritual level
RevRandy. . . . .if we had the answers, the challenges of this spiritual level would be gone
RevRandy. . . . .there would be nothing here to learn and remember
Marie1. . . . .true
Elissa. . . . .o tf, that sounds cool... i'll go look right after the chat
bluelight. . . . .{--- has all the answers
RevRandy. . . . .but to what questions, blue?
bluelight. . . . .hehehe
Elissa. . . . .lol yeah right... that's the ticket
Marie1. . . . .lol :)
RevRandy. . . . .But many have tried to sell their limited portion of understanding as the whole answer for everyone
bluelight. . . . .Rikkity is so cool
bluelight. . . . .i have had so many weird experiences nobody wants me to open my mouth anymore lolol
Elissa. . . . .we do, blue
bluelight. . . . .i know that's why i come here E
bluelight. . . . .:D
RevRandy. . . . .I want to interject a different perspective, if I may
RevRandy. . . . .in a previous point Rikkity had this to say:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"One moment you are talking with a spirit,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2and the next they are a person who won't admit we all exist.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Pisser.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2That's the story of the afterlife.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2People learn, and die, and seem to know.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2But when they go back, they often show they had not learned, only adapted--
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2outward show, not inner knowledge.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2It takes many times for most people to get it.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2So, what we feel is loss and disappointment.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"When someone moves on with knowledge,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2we rejoice because we know we are now connected forever." (12/30/95 - G#10)
RevRandy. . . . .Here's a very different viewpoint - from the side of the dead
RevRandy. . . . .Of those who have been spirit and then return to the physical, and don't remember that they can connect to the spiritual
bluelight. . . . .that's a good one but it brings up another point people cant' understand
RevRandy. . . . .yes, blue
bluelight. . . . .woops sorry RR
bluelight. . . . .carry on
RevRandy. . . . .well - many people can picture the process of going from life to death,
RevRandy. . . . .but what about the other way -
RevRandy. . . . .and what about those left in death when someone returns to life?
Marie1. . . . .lol...this really sounds goood. what i mean is yes, when we are in the middle of glory, we know everything, but when we are in the place where we do need to share or use what we know, we know nothing. Ironic, isn't it?
RevRandy. . . . .unless we have truly learned and remembered it - made it inner knowledge
RevRandy. . . . .and that part about adapting, not learning
RevRandy. . . . .ever been there on this side -
RevRandy. . . . .or the other
Elissa. . . . .rikkity says we don't know everything on the other side, marie... we just have a wider perspective and better resources :)
RevRandy. . . . .and more energy and unlimited "time"
Marie1. . . . .true, but we do have that here too...we just get caught up in situations and forget to widen ourselves and knowledge...expand
RevRandy. . . . .death does not transform us into someone else - it simply (yea, simply) removes the physical and opens us up to a radical chance to consolidate our learnings
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Elissa. . . . .good point marie
RevRandy. . . . .Marie - that is what I wonder - can we sense when we have failed to do more than adapt here, in life
bluelight. . . . .what about the fact that we accept being able to communicate with spirits on other side but can't think of ourselves as spirits ..
RevRandy. . . . .good one blue
bluelight. . . . .people scoff at telepathy only want to communicate with deceased
Marie1. . . . .perhaps, we can also sense when we have failed to expand, to allow those resources that we have, in physical life and spiritual life to aid us.
Elissa. . . . .yes, but to be fair let's consider the energy it takes just to sustain ourselves as physical beings
RevRandy. . . . .Rikkity has told us that those who do not believe in spirit communication while alive won't be much use when dead if we try to communicate with them - they still don't know they can do it
TF88. . . . .so that's why I"m always exhausted E?? LOL
RevRandy. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .that's it, tf! lol
bluelight. . . . .yes Marie i believe this also
bluelight. . . . .many here r 'dead'
RevRandy. . . . .Actually there is a conspiracy between AOL, Microsoft, and ATT to keep people from knowing they can communicate spiritually
bluelight. . . . .lol RR
Elissa. . . . .lol randy
TF88. . . . .I must say though...it's fascinating to be in a huge crowd of people and to try to see everyone there as a spirit in physical form.
Elissa. . . . .tf, i seem to remember you saying you've done that
Marie1. . . . .true elissa....but remember, when we are using that energy, are we tapped into the universal source or do we think that we can handle everything and just use what we have inside...?
keerxa. . . . . when i was near death towards the end after the struggling i felt very calm
keerxa. . . . .it was like there was someone there calming me
TF88. . . . .yes elissa, it's something I try to remember to do everywhere i’m around others. even in the grocery store.
bluelight. . . . .i like to think i have a limitless supply of energy to tap into
bluelight. . . . .and should remember it more often :0
RevRandy. . . . .sense the abundance of life (energy, love, etc); pass beyond the limits
RevRandy. . . . .if you felt like someone was there, then there was someone there
Elissa. . . . .another good point marie... but i still think we need to be gentle with ourselves and realize our limitations in the physical world
bluelight. . . . .is why i don't like to think in terms of others limiting it
RevRandy. . . . .if we could overcome all limitations of being physical we could not learn from it
bluelight. . . . .but E it's so easy to limit your physical self
bluelight. . . . .well it is for me .. blue is lazy :0
RevRandy. . . . .but she can type fast
keerxa. . . . .what do you mean by limit yourself??
bluelight. . . . .lolol have to chase myself with a broom
bluelight. . . . .i mean make excuses for keerxa
Elissa. . . . .hahaha blue
Elissa. . . . .yes, blue and marie i think you're right... but i also think that sometimes we can get carried away with unrealistic expectations of ourselves
Marie1. . . . .ahhh...i would still challenge that one...lol...our limitations are what we think they are. if we live by the notion that we can do anything and be anything, then why set limitations? does the limitation sustain our in a certain boundary or expectation places on us, or is it a limitation of guidance? is there such a limitation - a limitation of guidance?
bluelight. . . . .i mean make excuses for keerxa
Elissa. . . . .hahaha blue
TF88. . . . .I think maybe Elissa means be gentle about our frustration
bluelight. . . . .yes E very much so i agree
bluelight. . . . .i understand now
Elissa. . . . .i don't believe we can be anything... i believe we can be who we are
Marie1. . . . .i think is it when we try to control those expectations or future events, it is when we do find ourselves in a space of "what is happening? what did i do? i can't deal with this"
RevRandy. . . . .and nobody better try to change us!!!!
TF88. . . . .aiming for 12th grade is fine when we're in 3rd grade...but expecting to grasp 12th grade as a 3rd-grader is another matter.
Marie1. . . . .these are the times that we are not allowing ourselves to be at one with the universe, rather, we are trying to control the change and growth so that we know which way it will go.
RevRandy. . . . .Good point, TF
Elissa. . . . .exactly, tf
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RevRandy. . . . .Marie - that is the old "dominion over everything" trap -
RevRandy. . . . .(or should I say crap)
Marie1. . . . .how?
Marie1. . . . .and which part is?
RevRandy. . . . .to think that we can control it all - but we don't
Marie1. . . . .yes, that is my point
RevRandy. . . . .I agree with you - open up to what is possible, not what you can control
Elissa. . . . .and i would add that the most--and least--we can do is be a fulfilled "I" and that is different for each of us
Marie1. . . . .good point
RevRandy. . . . .just like in a building, you can't have each beam be the same - only as each fulfills its own function is the overall strength developed
bluelight. . . . .i wanna b the whole building RR
Elissa. . . . .hahaha
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"There are just as many smart people there, too.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Think about this.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Everyone here will, after being here, be there--so you get the benefits.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And when someone is ready to move on from there, they don't come here.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2So if you take the integral of smartness there and here,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2it is larger there than here.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2It's just that we have so many more in total and we know what we know,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2while you people don't know what you know...you know...no...huh.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2It's all there and here." (6/16/98 - G#45)
RevRandy. . . . .here is proof that Rikkity can confuse herself!!
Elissa. . . . .whitetiger you're so quiet tonight... or did you just get here
WhiteTiger. . . . .lmao... uncharactristic, ain't it? ;)
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Elissa. . . . .extremely lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .(just got here, truth be told)
bluelight. . . . .not sure which end is up now
Elissa. . . . .ok that explains it then
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol! :P
Elissa. . . . .:P
TF88. . . . .depends which way you're looking blue :)
RevRandy. . . . .but I think she is saying it only appears that the afterlife has it more together because while each person on the other side is not smarter than here, there are so many more dead than those alive, the sum total makes it look like they are smarter
BeannieBaby. . . . .hello, may I speak
RevRandy. . . . .Only if you say "Mother, May I?"
Elissa. . . . .sure beanniebaby... please do
bluelight. . . . .RR but we're supposed to b so overpopulated here i've heard most the 'spirits' r here :0
bluelight. . . . .a theory anyway..
RevRandy. . . . .not from what Rikkity says
TF88. . . . .it's just a popular place to be blue...here, I mean.
bluelight. . . . .when u consider many lives returning
Elissa. . . . .more spirits are "there" blue
RevRandy. . . . .and there is a spiritual flow, as it were - as more entities reach this level of complexity and others find their fulfillment and move on
RevRandy. . . . .In the infinite process of spiritual development from simplicity to ultimate complexity, we are somewhere in the middle, and in the fullness of time, infinitely more spirits will be more complex than here - so, in other words - there are more there than here

bluelight. . . . .that makes sense RR .. i would like to think so
BeannieBaby. . . . .I have a question, I dreamed of both of my parents
RevRandy. . . . .was it a dream you were glad to have
BeannieBaby. . . . .is this a warning when you dream of your parents?
BeannieBaby. . . . .My father was scolding my brother for the misery he is putting me thru
bluelight. . . . .what kind of warning Beannie
WhiteTiger. . . . .hmmmmm
Elissa. . . . .beanniebaby did the dream feel real?
BeannieBaby. . . . .important messages
BeannieBaby. . . . .to what is currently going on
BeannieBaby. . . . .my mother was weeping
Elissa. . . . .but did it feel physical?
BeannieBaby. . . . .I felt my own emotions, and saw the anger of my father
Elissa. . . . .then the dream was probably a projection of your own emotions in symbolic terms... try to understand it that way
BeannieBaby. . . . .okay
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"And with that, the Stardog 'ARF' and the Cosmic Traveler wink. . . . .go forth to
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2battle the forces of solemnity armed with jokes, growls 'rrrrrrr', and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2whoopee cushions."
BeannieBaby. . . . .but how is it.....that you can see people in a dream that you do not know?
RevRandy. . . . .how do you know that you do not know them
RevRandy. . . . .by the time you dream them, you know them
BeannieBaby. . . . .because if real life I do not know them!
BeannieBaby. . . . .in real life
Elissa. . . . .bb, they are probably part of your reality that you haven't known yet
RevRandy. . . . .in the field theory of existence, they are somewhere in your web of being .... waiting to know
RevRandy. . . . .time for closing thoughts folks
Elissa. . . . .any last comments, questions, ponderings?
Elissa. . . . .on the afterlife?
BeannieBaby. . . . .How can you dream sometimes that your parents are old
BeannieBaby. . . . .and sometimes your parents young
RevRandy. . . . .because they are both to you
TF88. . . . .I have a comment
RevRandy. . . . .yes TF
Elissa. . . . .go ahead tf
bluelight. . . . .maybe u knew them in another life
BeannieBaby. . . . .but what are they afterlife
TF88. . . . .I think it's important to not only consider our life now and our up coming afterlife
TF88. . . . .but to also consider our past after life...prior to this lifetime
RevRandy. . . . .remember this life is an afterlife to what has come before
Elissa. . . . .in what sense, tf
TF88. . . . .many of us have already been there
TF88. . . . .so we have knowledge about it within us
RevRandy. . . . .and been here, and been here, and been here .....
TF88. . . . .knowledge about our own experience there
RevRandy. . . . .yes!
* WhiteTiger suggests a couple of basic psychology books might answer most of beanniebaby's question
Elissa. . . . .thank you, tf. that's a good thought to ponder
bluelight. . . . .maybe we were where Rikkity is and come here then go where she is then come here ..?
RevRandy. . . . .yep
bluelight. . . . .am i getting a yep?
RevRandy. . . . .yep
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .here's another one: yep
bluelight. . . . .wow
TF88. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .yep yep
bluelight. . . . .i wasn't sure even i believed that one
RevRandy. . . . .and right on TF
Elissa. . . . .lol
BeannieBaby. . . . .lol
Marie1. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .ok - E - run the rainbow song
RevRandy. . . . .I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep
Elissa. . . . .ok, but first i want to thank you all for being here on this journey with us... it's been another great evening!
bluelight. . . . .but i thot Rikkity said more r somewhere else than here.. maybe we go somewhere else then come back here but she says no
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 0,14!Elissa rainbow.mid 14,0 :o)
bluelight. . . . .i always leave here more confused than when i came lolol but that's good too
bluelight. . . . .and i thank YA'LL !!!
TF88. . . . .thanks everyone
Elissa. . . . .hahah blue i have no idea what you're saying, but it's been a long day
bluelight. . . . .well i know that's the main thing
Elissa. . . . .((((((((((((SPers))))))))))))))))))
RevRandy. . . . .night all --- journey on
bluelight. . . . .nite RevRandy
WhiteTiger. . . . .nite RR
Marie1. . . . .nite uncle
TF88. . . . .long day E? or full day ;)
RevRandy. . . . .or both
TF88. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .ooooo tf you've been coming here too long
Elissa. . . . .lol
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TF88. . . . .I have? oh...hahaha
WhiteTiger. . . . .dang... I missed most of the floorshow :(
TF88. . . . .goodnight everyone...light and love :)
bluelight. . . . .goodnite Elissa.. thanks again for the logs .. c u next week :D
bluelight. . . . .nite everyone :D
Elissa. . . . .nite blue. love ya
WhiteTiger. . . . .nite blue
Elissa. . . . .and now i'm outta here
Elissa. . . . .nite all!
Session Close: Sun Apr 09 23:12:07 2000