log010200

Session Start: Sun Jan 02 20:54:28 2000 *** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4"Fears and Hopes” 2,9Sunday 2,11at 0,129pm 2,13EST~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com

Elissa. . . . .hi guys!
Jackie. . . . .Hi
HBaker. . . . .Hello, Elissa, I'm Harriet
cathy. . . . .Hi, Elissa
Elissa. . . . .hi harriet and welcome :)
Elissa. . . . .hi cathy
RevRandy. . . . .we will be discussing our hopes and fears, and reactions to the fears put on us around y2k
Jackie. . . . .I see.
Elissa. . . . .and whatever else people want to talk about
RevRandy. . . . .I know Harriet because (((Ta-Da))) on Wednesday I performed her wedding
HBaker. . . . .BIG SMILE
Elissa. . . . .o!!!!
Jackie. . . . .Congratulations!
cathy. . . . .congrats to you harriet!
HBaker. . . . .bowing -- and batting southern eyelashes
Elissa. . . . .congratulations!
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Elissa. . . . .hi susann
RevRandy. . . . .hello susann
susann. . . . .Hello all
RevRandy. . . . .so, all of your computers survived?
Elissa. . . . .apparently :)
* cathy thinks that's very funny...
Jackie. . . . .no problem
HBaker. . . . .I didn't turn mine on from Dec 30 until today
Elissa. . . . .ask those who aren't here lol
RevRandy. . . . .everyone whose computer isn't working raise a hand (LOL)
* Elissa thinks cathy must have a great sense of humor :)
RevRandy. . . . .we like humor here
cathy. . . . .thanks, elissa!
Elissa. . . . .how many thought their computers would crash?
RevRandy. . . . .not me
cathy. . . . .me neither!
Jackie. . . . .The computers were down in one restaurant I heard about, but they had a repairman come in and straighten them out before opening
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Elissa. . . . .one restaurant does not a disaster make lol
Elissa. . . . .hey beka!!!!
RevRandy. . . . .hello beka

beka. . . . .wow, a full house already!
beka. . . . .hi!!!!!!!
Elissa. . . . .beka was at our party yesterday
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RevRandy. . . . .Hello Sharross
beka. . . . .yes, and it was great to finally SEE you elissa! (I knew randy a bit from Williamsburg)
Elissa. . . . .((((((sharr))))))
Sharross. . . . .Hi Rev and Elissa Happy New Year
Elissa. . . . .happy new millennium!
Sharross. . . . .thanks
RevRandy. . . . .the intertwining circle show their connections, as we get to meet
beka. . . . .smiles. yes, i met elissa on the back steps yesterday.. she held out her hand and said welcome
Elissa. . . . .and gave you a hug
beka. . . . .being very open but clearly having no idea who i was
beka. . . . .and i said, Elissa? I'm beka!
beka. . . . .and she went "ooohhh! BEKA!!!"
Elissa. . . . .hahahaha i was very reserved as usual
Sharross. . . . .haha that must have been very neat !!
beka. . . . .lol
beka. . . . .yes, it was very neat.
Elissa. . . . .it was!
Elissa. . . . .beka is just like she sounds here... full of wisdom and humor
beka. . . . .gosh! blush.
RevRandy. . . . .And now my secret of y2k and every time we meet for SP - when I say it is time to start it is not by my computer clock, but by the 110 year old kitchen clock on my desk
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beka. . . . .is it really 110 years old???
RevRandy. . . . .'tis - was a wedding gift to my great grandparents
beka. . . . .wow! sacred, that.
RevRandy. . . . .and it has just struck 9
Sharross. . . . .Hey Deniiiiii !!!
Elissa. . . . .((((((deni)))))) happy millennium!
Deni. . . . .hi everyone :)
Deni. . . . .happy millennium to you all!!
RevRandy. . . . .hey Deni
Deni. . . . .hey Rev
RevRandy. . . . .So, let's get started
beka. . . . .ok, i'm quiet now
Harriet. . . . .sitting up straight and putting on serious hat
Elissa. . . . .for how long beka :)
beka. . . . .shhh i'm quiet.
RevRandy. . . . .welcome to one and all
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RevRandy. . . . .hello to zee and TF
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TF88. . . . .hello there
zee. . . . .hello everyone
RevRandy. . . . .hey Carol
Elissa. . . . .hey TF :)
Carol. . . . . hey Rev and everyone!
Elissa. . . . .and carol (whom we've also met in person!)
Carol. . . . .hehe, hi elissa
RevRandy. . . . .as we gather on Sunday evenings, we follow some simple formats at the present -
RevRandy. . . . .after a little intro to SP from Elissa, we will offer a simple invocation,
RevRandy. . . . .and then Elissa and I will attempt to provoke
RevRandy. . . . .a discussion
beka. . . . .invoke, convoke
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RevRandy. . . . .and then it's up to all of us
Harriet. . . . .sounds provocative to me
Elissa. . . . .ok here comes the intro for those of you who are joining us for the first time:
RevRandy. . . . .so, Elissa - take it away
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Elissa. . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa. . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa. . . . .Williamsburg, VA.
Elissa. . . . .I am a writer, medium, and published poet, and
Elissa. . . . .am currently a Masters candidate in Community Counseling
Elissa. . . . .at the College of William and Mary.
Elissa. . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa. . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa. . . . .on August 20, 1995.
Elissa. . . . .She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa. . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa. . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa. . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for that body of
Elissa. . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa. . . . .Ponder.
Elissa. . . . .It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa. . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa. . . . .and death, of connection, and of our place in the universe.
Elissa. . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa. . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives.
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Elissa. . . . . We are here to
Elissa. . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore what it means
Elissa. . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa. . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa. . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa. . . . . or email Randy or me anytime. Thanks
Elissa. . . . .for coming...and again, welcome! Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
Elissa. . . . .*
sue. . . . .Do you communicate often?
Elissa. . . . .yes sue, we communicate about twice a week formally, and more than that informally
beka. . . . .what does formally mean? and informally?
RevRandy. . . . .twice a week I get on my tuxedo ....
TF88. . . . .lol
Deni. . . . .lol
cathy. . . . .lol
Harriet. . . . .*cough*
beka. . . . .rr, you are funny! and ducky
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .ty
beka. . . . .yaw (you are welcome!)
RevRandy. . . . .let's say planned and structured as opposed to serendipitously
Elissa. . . . .formally means we schedule communication sessions... she gives us a day and sometimes a time...
Elissa. . . . .informally means spontaneously
Harriet. . . . .(grabbing dictionary)
RevRandy. . . . .she say spontaneously, I say serendipitously .... she says potato, I say potatoe
beka. . . . .thank you.
sue. . . . .How?
Elissa. . . . .through mediumship, automatic writing, dreams, visions, any way you can possibly think of!
beka. . . . .serendipitously --} out of good fortune
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beka. . . . .you two are lovely human beings! seriously!
RevRandy. . . . .So, please join in the spirit of these simple words
RevRandy. . . . .of invocation
RevRandy. . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . .Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . .and guided in all ways gracious. Blessed Be and Amen
Jackie. . . . .amen
Elissa. . . . .amen~
TF88. . . . .amen
Sharross. . . . .Amen
beka. . . . .blessed be
Harriet. . . . .amen
* cathy : ~ Amen ~
laurel. . . . .amen
Deni. . . . .Amen
susann. . . . .amen
Elissa. . . . .and a miracle has happened tonight, everyone: sandy is NOT late!!!
TF88. . . . .LOL
beka. . . . .praise be to miracles!
RevRandy. . . . .I have to share that whenever I enter that invocation, I feel the frantic pace of getting the letters in, and then I feel a great big "AH...." grabbed hold of my being
beka. . . . .what's the AH feel like?
Elissa. . . . .yes, and i feel spirit come closer :)
beka. . . . .i just feel a goodness and safety and warmth
RevRandy. . . . .a settling in of peacefulness, and a sense of connection
RevRandy. . . . .an all-rightness
TF88. . . . .I like the "guided in all ways gracious" part the best...it gets me every time
beka. . . . .yes....
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Drica. . . . .What do we talk in this room?
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Elissa. . . . .drica we talk about many things and tonight we'll focus on fears and hopes
RevRandy. . . . .Tonight we are thinking about the ways in which we are guided by hopes and also by fears,
RevRandy. . . . .and trying to put into perspective some of the ways in which this recent year change may have focused for us
Drica. . . . .Thank you Elissa!
Drica. . . . .thanks randy!
RevRandy. . . . .So, in the spirit of what Rikkity has said about energy, let me open with a question
RevRandy. . . . .did you feel that your spirit, at this time of the new year, was being energized, focused, etc., from within yourself, or from forces beyond yourself?
RevRandy. . . . .Explain, compare and contrast
RevRandy. . . . .(But I will not correct the answers, not say "right" or "wrong")
RevRandy. . . . .What happened for you ....
beka. . . . .ahem, and that's cuz there are no rights or wrongs in this.,..
RevRandy. . . . .yes, ma'am
TF88. . . . .i didn't feel much of any change, except to "review" where I thought I would be vs where I am
Drica. . . . .Neither did I
TF88. . . . .this year was important just because it connected me with my thoughts as a child
TF88. . . . .of what the year 2000 would feel like
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RevRandy. . . . .ah - TF - can you say more about that
TF88. . . . .but I did not feel caught up in the millennium "event'
Elissa. . . . .ah yes, and what did you think it would feel like then?
TF88. . . . .I used to think about what age I would be in 2000 and wonder what I would be doing
TF88. . . . .so this weekend I gave thought to actually answering those questions I had as

TF88. . . . .a child asked.
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Elissa. . . . .so you connected with the child within you
TF88. . . . .yes, exactly
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TF88. . . . .I must add, I feel a lot younger than I expected to LOL
beka. . . . .chuckle...
RevRandy. . . . .:-)
beka. . . . .grins
RevRandy. . . . .TF - I found myself also thinking back to what I envisioned then ... and realise that my now is much different than contemplated -- along a path more full of loss and pains than I thought it would be -- and it is also more full of meaning than I envisioned
Drica. . . . .I don't know if I have connected with the child within, this new year
Elissa. . . . .were you caught up in the millennium hype and then felt let down?
Elissa. . . . .i wonder how many of us thought that 2000 would be magical in some way... some marking of a change in consciousness
Elissa. . . . .(i love all those zeros)
cathy. . . . .I lost someone in 99 and I think through that, I've come to see life in a different view.
Elissa. . . . .o cathy, i understand
RevRandy. . . . .a year with a significant loss can certainly change us (o, I do know)
cathy. . . . .yes, but he has made me see that there is life after death, so the mill. scare didn't fase me
Elissa. . . . .death puts so much in a new perspective doesn't it cathy
RevRandy. . . . .some of those "big" changes can make other things pale in comparison
cathy. . . . .yes, but also, he has come to me and changed my thoughts about death
Elissa. . . . .((((((cathy)))))) awesome!
cathy. . . . .yes, I think so. but now I wish I could communicate with him and not have to wait for him to come to me.
Drica. . . . .Oh, in 1999 I have learned a lot!
beka. . . . .what have you learned?
Drica. . . . .I moved from school, met new others people, VERY different
Drica. . . . .Oh, I wanted to kill myself last year, so, I am glad I could survive to see 2000 coming
Harriet. . . . .{{{ drica }}
Drica. . . . .what?
beka. . . . .(drica -- that was a hug from harriet...)
Drica. . . . .ok, I am new here
beka. . . . .yeah, someone had to tell me the first time too...
Harriet. . . . .my life has totally changed in 1999, am doing something I swore I wouldn't do again
beka. . . . .what's that?
Harriet. . . . .my significant other had several major surgeries
Harriet. . . . .after my previous husband had died, I had sworn never to take care of someone again
Harriet. . . . .and I'm doing it
beka. . . . .oh gosh... is that scary/hard?
Elissa. . . . .o my harriet
Elissa. . . . .if i may focus this discussion a bit, let's talk about the y2k fears that have been filling the media and our heads and emptying the store shelves...
Elissa. . . . .what does everyone think that was about? any thoughts?
TF88. . . . .fear sells things :)
RevRandy. . . . .amen TF
RevRandy. . . . .(including religion)
Elissa. . . . .o yes tf
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beka. . . . .especially religion....
ALana. . . . .I think that a lot of them thought that this was the doomsday
Elissa. . . . .hi alana! so you think people really expected the end of the world or something close?
kybear. . . . .i feel many did..
ALana. . . . .At least my son and his friend did. There were a lot of rumors floating around that we would be at war, and the end of the world would happen
RevRandy. . . . .I think it was a focused fear, to attempt to dispel (or mitigate, or absolve) the many unfocused, undiscussed, unnamed fears of be everyday process of living
Elissa. . . . .ooo intriguing thought randy!
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Harriet. . . . .FEAR -- false evidence appearing real
Elissa. . . . .good definition harriet :)
beka. . . . .ah yes, randy, if we can be ascared of the monster under the bed, then we don't have to pay attention to the darknessess we can't name but that rumble within us
Jackie. . . . .good one
Elissa. . . . .we projected our fears into this one mass event?
TF88. . . . .my concern was that if enough people feared Y2K, that energy itself would mess things up
RevRandy. . . . .isn't that what apocalyptical thinking is .... trying to make all the fears of living into one big one
Harriet. . . . .always a possibility TF -- have you read the Hundreth Monkey?
Jack. . . . .fear fills the need for drama in some peoples lives
ALana. . . . .My one fear, was that a lot of the crazy people would go haywire on y2k
Elissa. . . . .but that didn't happen, TF... why didn't that happen?
TF88. . . . .but I think many people really didn't want to play a part in all the fear
beka. . . . .or maybe fear is an absence of FEELING
RevRandy. . . . .hmm beka - a false consuming lack of feeling
Drica. . . . .Fear is a challenge!
beka. . . . .yeah... consuming of self projected... all to mask the absence of the real heart
kybear. . . . .we did in this area have a few minor glitches though. that really scared a few ppl..
Elissa. . . . .every little evidence of what we fear becomes magnified doesn't it ky
kybear. . . . .yup it does but when the RR crossing bars trap your rig that alone is unsettling lol..
TF88. . . . .there was also a wonderful feeling of celebration in the air
TF88. . . . .perhaps the feeling of celebration helped balance the fear
Jackie. . . . .I saw more celebration of family and friends than fear. Most of the people I know were focusing on the basics--connecting with each other--simplifying
Elissa. . . . .or perhaps, as we've been taught, fear does not create anything!!!
RevRandy. . . . .I was awestruck by the faces I saw on TV from around the world - almost all of them without fear in their eyes, but awe and wonder

TF88. . . . .there was one aspect that truly bothered me...all the competition between cities of pyrotechnics, as if pyrotechnics indicates power
Jackie. . . . .Yes, Rev. All over the world there were fabulous celebrations ranging from extravagant to elegantly simple
Harriet. . . . .perhaps the combined energy of those of us who have positive feelings changed the negative energy
RevRandy. . . . .but if so many of us were not buying into it, what was selling the image for the past several months
RevRandy. . . . .s/he who has the best fireworks gets to heaven first - it is that simple
Deni. . . . .lol
TF88. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .lol
TF88. . . . .they're gonna blast their way in
beka. . . . .fireworks scare dogs, souls of humankind
Jackie. . . . .funny
Elissa. . . . .fear keeps us from good things... it is a limitation... a wall we build to protect ourselves from the unknown or what seems to be threatening
Drica. . . . .But then the wall start to become so tall that we can't move
beka. . . . .pull out the bricks beneath
Drica. . . . .you know, we can't free ourselves
RevRandy. . . . .exactly Drica - the walls of safety eventually imprison us, not protect us
Harriet. . . . .why does murder sell so much easier than someone's good fortune?
RevRandy. . . . .why does murder and mayhem sell ....
Elissa. . . . .harriet it's much easier to focus on the negative
Jack. . . . .what is portrayed in the media is not a very good gauge of the masses
Harriet. . . . .that's what I mean Elissa -- that's why the hype got people excited
Elissa. . . . .much easier to focus on that then to try to figure out how to focus on growth and fulfillment
Elissa. . . . .right harriet
RevRandy. . . . .and we can do our fears alone (rugged individualism) but the growth and fulfillment would probably best be done in connection
RevRandy. . . . .and that is new territory for so many
beka. . . . .how true, fears are best done alone... because it's one own house of mirrors that constitutes the fears often, a house only ones self can bring down/change
Jackie. . . . .Has anyone told those people in foxholes that they can come out now and donate their supplies to the foodbanks
Elissa. . . . .lol jackie they're probably still in shock
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RevRandy. . . . .hey ez
RevRandy. . . . .!!
Elissa. . . . .((((((ez))))))
ezwind. . . . .hi rev
ezwind. . . . .(((((elissa))))))
RevRandy. . . . .cathy earlier said she was having to drink up all the water her hubby had stockpiled
Jackie. . . . .You can always tap the hot water tank if it comes to that
Harriet. . . . .I like the wine stockpile best -- we have some champagne left
ezwind. . . . .billboard in Florida says: After all that fuss, Y2KALM
Elissa. . . . .rikkity called it y2crap lol
Elissa. . . . .but there is a certain comfort in having a fear everyone else has too, isn't there...
Elissa. . . . .we all love to have external validation
Harriet. . . . .elissa .. that's what jim jones capitalized on
RevRandy. . . . .but even for those without food stockpiles .... come on now, be honest, how many of you took out extra cash before the 31st?
zee. . . . .not me
beka. . . . .not me.
Jack. . . . .not me
* Elissa pastes big gold stars on zee's and beka's foreheads :)
beka. . . . .gee... tanks E. talk about reclaiming my inner child!
Elissa. . . . .and jack’s :)
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Harriet. . . . .what extra cash -- we spent it all in Williamsburg
RevRandy. . . . .I actually had less cash than usual .... but I know of some who only stockpiled cash
RevRandy. . . . .Thank you Harriet - and come back and bring more - we like tourists!
kybear. . . . .lol i took out 20$ does that count REV?
Elissa. . . . .only if that's all you had in the bank ky lol
RevRandy. . . . .it does if all you have is 20.98
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .LOL
zee. . . . .lol
kybear. . . . .lol ummmm i'll not tell lol
RevRandy. . . . .beka - do you want to talk about tanks?
beka. . . . .chuckle.... that would be dialectal 'thanks', eh?
RevRandy. . . . .yes'em beka
Drica. . . . .Ok, my screen frozen for a while
RevRandy. . . . .drica - when it freezes, put chocolate syrup on it, and enjoy
Drica. . . . .hehe
TF88. . . . .I do enough stock piling for hurricanes, I didn't for this
Elissa. . . . .so how do we get sucked into putting so much of our energy into this stuff? i'm sure we all at least checked our computers a few different ways and had a little uneasiness
RevRandy. . . . .wait - I did not check my abacus yet
TF88. . . . .ok, i did do a backup on my computer LOL
Elissa. . . . .now the truth comes out lol
Drica. . . . .sorry for the wrong english
Gus. . . . .hello all
Elissa. . . . .hey gus!
Harriet. . . . .i didn't turn my puter on for four days
zee. . . . .why?
Harriet. . . . .zee -- wanted to be sure the terrorists didn't get it
beka. . . . .but I did want the evening to be special... i mean 2000 was pretty durned special! right?
RevRandy. . . . .but yes, to get to a milestone (even if it is arbitrary - what isn't arbitrary) is significant
Elissa. . . . .does special have to contain an element of fear?
RevRandy. . . . .hey, 2000 was 2000 years in the making
beka. . . . .it is arbitrary. i didn't really do what i wanted to... which was to take my dogs and go down to the ocean and walk the sands alone and contemplate infinity... didn't do it cuz it's dangerous alone.
RevRandy. . . . .unless they are BIG dogs
beka. . . . .chuckle. they were awaiting walks the other night in my car. 2 sixty pound dogs.
TF88. . . . .2000 was way more than 2000 years in the making though
RevRandy. . . . .and way less - since time does not matter
Elissa. . . . .are we so afraid of the unknown that even our most glorious possibilities frighten us a little?
Harriet. . . . .YES
Drica. . . . .I think people are also afraid of what they do know
RevRandy. . . . .o yes, drica
Drica. . . . .people's opinion maybe?
Elissa. . . . .drica, people's opinion?
Jack. . . . .success can be scary for it is untraveled waters
RevRandy. . . . .they could have driven for themselves if you trusted them with your keys
Drica. . . . .yup
RevRandy. . . . .well said Jack -
RevRandy. . . . .even the wanted and anticipated when it is untraveled and uncharted can be scary
Elissa. . . . .what are we afraid of?
beka. . . . .i think we're afraid of feelings and being ALIVE
tadpol. . . . .we are afraid of fear
Elissa. . . . .ah... are we afriad our fears will create what we fear?
Drica. . . . .to be "nuts" in others people's mind? to do not be normal?
TF88. . . . .we might be more afraid of NOT feeling alive when we give it a try
Elissa. . . . .yes tf!
tadpol. . . . .we are afraid of our own ideas :)
Elissa. . . . .tadpol what do we think our ideas will do to us?
tadpol. . . . .anything we imagine they will do ...we don't really fear the boogie man, we fear the idea of the boogie man
Drica. . . . .We are afraid of not being what others people want us to be
beka. . . . .actually, the only thing i'm currently working on in the fear department is complete openness.
Gus. . . . .any kind of change is a recipe for fear I think
RevRandy. . . . .that we may not be up to the task of really living
Elissa. . . . .afraid to fail?
beka. . . . .what do you think "really living" is, RR?
RevRandy. . . . .being radically open ....
Elissa. . . . .we fear we are not strong enough to deal with whatever comes along?
Drica. . . . .yeah elissa
beka. . . . .yep. that's what i meant by complete openness
TF88. . . . .I think "really living" is getting rid of all the "can'ts" and "shoulds"
TF88. . . . .and replacing them with honest choices
Jack. . . . .to really live-- to be oneself
Jackie. . . . .Maybe it's my age but I feel less fear, more real and in touch with what I want, who I really am
Elissa. . . . .wonderful jackie... me too but i am always working on that fear thing
RevRandy. . . . .that, Jackie, I think is what is usually called wisdom - experience tempered by age and thought and feeling
Jackie. . . . .ty
Jackie. . . . .experience anyway
zee. . . . .thats why we have veils for
Elissa. . . . .veils, zee?
zee. . . . .walls
Elissa. . . . .ah ok
Gus. . . . .Really living is facing life with our feet on the ground our eyes wide open and God in our hearts
ezwind. . . . .i like that, Gus
RevRandy. . . . .and the daring to risk failure and still survive
Drica. . . . .We fear to be responsible of our own mistakes, this is why we give our lives to others
Elissa. . . . .ooooooo that's another one to ponder drica!
Jack. . . . .if we are not responsible for our own mistakes we keep on making them
Jackie. . . . .sounds good
Elissa. . . . .right jack
Elissa. . . . .we don't learn if we don't take responsibility
TF88. . . . .except, I'm not too sure what "mistakes" are
Elissa. . . . .but then again, we're not responsible if we fail to learn if we don't take responsibility, are we
RevRandy. . . . .as Rikkity would remind us, unless we learn AND remember, we will just keep learning, the same lesson over and over and over and over
beka. . . . .mistakes, to me are missteps in the flow of things
Jack. . . . .we must be accountable
Gus. . . . .we also don't learn if we don't take chances
Elissa. . . . .right gus
RevRandy. . . . .can't learn standing still, and we can't stand still even if we try
Drica. . . . .Oh, Lessons hurt us!
Jackie. . . . .amen
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TF88. . . . .seriously, what is a mistake, or a mis-step?
RevRandy. . . . .and who defines, TF?
TF88. . . . .right, who defines?
RevRandy. . . . .it's Sunday - you define
TF88. . . . .LOL
TF88. . . . .I can think of many things I might consider being a mistake I made...
TF88. . . . .but not really...because those lessons were so important...how can they be mistakes?
RevRandy. . . . .but all of them pointed you to where you are now - is that a mistake
Jack. . . . .every day is a school day and maybe there are no mistakes
harriet. . . . .i think we define our own mistakes
harriet. . . . .it's a mis-take -- like in a movie -- you have to re-do it
RevRandy. . . . .but avoiding it also hurts
RevRandy. . . . .and we get many, many chances to re-do it; most of us get all the chances we need
Elissa. . . . .what is a mistake? that depends on what you are focusing on i think... it's what happens when we take a chance and try to learn something lol
Elissa. . . . .and we ARE strong enough to take chances and face changes and survive and even thrive! every one of us here knows that, and yet we still fear
Drica. . . . .People fear to learn because it hurts, they are aware of that
Gus. . . . .I have learned that I'm a poor judge of what is good or bad that happens in my life
Elissa. . . . .what do you mean gus?
Gus. . . . .I mean that many times something painful or something that causes a great deal of fear is, in the end, beneficial to me and those around me
RevRandy. . . . .yes gus
Elissa. . . . .o i see gus, yes i've had that experience as well
Gus. . . . .Elissa Yes but only if we have our eyes open
Drica. . . . .Mistakes can be things or facts that others people expect of you, or not, this can named as fail
beka. . . . .wow. i don't define them as something from outside myself
Elissa. . . . .o yes drica! mistakes can be what we perceive as our own failure in terms of the expectations of others
Jack. . . . .portia nelson's five short chapters says a lot
Drica. . . . .Ok, so , mistakes are the wrong ways !
Drica. . . . .and that make us hurt too
Drica. . . . .I think we learn more when we are suffering
ezwind. . . . .but don't some decisions have to be made at just the right moment, or we miss the chance?
Jackie. . . . .there's a good choice
Elissa. . . . .ez i believe that if we need to learn something the opportunity will keep presenting itself
Elissa. . . . .in one form or another
beka. . . . .here's an example of a non-mistake. ok?
beka. . . . .back a number of years ago, i was offered the job of full time tech writer. and also the job of a "Dissertation review Editor" at a university...
beka. . . . .I turned down them both. good thing. to have taken either would have been a "mistake."
beka. . . . .why?
beka. . . . .because my true calling, my bliss, as it were, was to work in teaching and language... and i had to hold on until I found the next stepping stone to my own bliss.
Elissa. . . . .good example beka! and that's why we need to trust the process :)
beka. . . . .deep trust in the process
RevRandy. . . . .to settle for the sake of avoiding painful possibilities is to avoid the blissful ones too
RevRandy. . . . .trust the process, trust the universe
Gus. . . . .life is ultimately a balance of pain and pleasure
zee. . . . .it takes letting go of the present perception and choosing again
Drica. . . . .I felt fear when I wanted to kill myself a great deal
Drica. . . . .well fear of life and NOT death
beka. . . . .drica, what do you mean?
Elissa. . . . .((((((drica)))))) i'm so glad you didn't take your own life... for all our sakes
Drica. . . . .yeah, there is a miracle when the things are getting wrong
RevRandy. . . . .but is fear the prime element, or only a symptom?
Drica. . . . .are u asking me Rev?
RevRandy. . . . .no - rhetorical?
Elissa. . . . .hi faith!
Faith. . . . .Hello
Drica. . . . .what kept me alive was my dreams. can u believe that?
beka. . . . .you mean night time dreams?
Drica. . . . .Both I would say
Drica. . . . .there was a woman in my dreams that sent me a message in my dream
Drica. . . . .she said that, no matter what' s my grades on school, I should keep alive
Drica. . . . .hehe
RevRandy. . . . .I am glad you had that dream
Drica. . . . .yup, helped me to be survive
RevRandy. . . . .(((the old clock struck 10 .... and so it is time for a little break .... keep on talking if you wish ... but if you need to go, o you know where, this is the time)))
RevRandy. . . . .((( back with a new starting question in about 10 minutes)))
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RevRandy. . . . .welcome lonely
Jack. . . . .Nelson Mandela said it best, "It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us."
Drica. . . . .JAck, I think we fear more the darkness
lonelygirl. . . . .Hello everyone!
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Jack. . . . .lets hope so
Drica. . . . .not to be alive
Drica. . . . .Well, When I am scared of something, I make my light shine
Faith. . . . .It's been almost 10 months since I lost my son. Has anyone gone through a period of mental detachment from their own pain at times. ?
Elissa. . . . .that's called shock faith
Faith. . . . .I feel like I just might get lost in it and not come out of it if I stay there too long
Gus. . . . .Yes Faith I have it is necessary for survival
Gus. . . . .FAith You'll come out of it
Elissa. . . . .faith, as a grief counselor i can tell you that whatever you need to do is ok!
Elissa. . . . .just accept whatever it is you are feeling and trust the process... as long as you don't deny or try to control your feelings it's ok
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Drica. . . . .Apocatastasis!
Gus. . . . .I lost a son 6 yrs ago I went through 2 yrs of pure hell
beka. . . . .((((gus))))
Faith. . . . .When I go to the cemetery it's such a huge reality check, I'm completely overwhelmed still
Elissa. . . . .there isn't any experience more overwhelming
kybear. . . . .(((((((((faith)))))))))
Gus. . . . .I came out the other side a better person all the way around I believe
TF88. . . . .{{{Gus}}}
Elissa. . . . .drica what's that?
Drica. . . . .what?
Elissa. . . . .apocatwhatever
Elissa. . . . .i like that word
Drica. . . . .hehe, Apocatastasis, Oh, I am reading a book about this. This means that, when something bad happens, you need to look and see the good side
Drica. . . . .not the good side, but something good
Drica. . . . .hehe, means a lot !
Faith. . . . .What were some of the emotions you experienced Gus in those first two years, if it's not to hard to talk about
Gus. . . . .I felt guilty remorseful angry sad depressed I went through denial I hated God. This last one almost brought on my demise. I realized that I cannot survive without God in my life PERIOD!!!!
Drica. . . . .I already felt this Gus
Drica. . . . .I hate God!
Faith. . . . .Thanks Gus
lonelygirl. . . . .Gus: I felt the same way you did three months ago.
RevRandy. . . . .just a thought, gus, from Rikkity - you cannot exist separate from all-that-is, and all-that-is cannot be without you
beka. . . . .phew. Rev.Randy. thank you for that restatement, helps me understand the god notion.
RevRandy. . . . .not mine - Ms Rikkity
beka. . . . .well, thanks for sharing Rikkity's thought then.
TF88. . . . .a wonderful thought randy
TF88. . . . .we all have such varying definitions of what God is, that rikkity's thought helps bring us all together in understanding
Drica. . . . .I was just saying everyone that God does the things all wrong
Drica. . . . .but at the end, I had a happy end
RevRandy. . . . .but I cannot think of God as something separate
Drica. . . . .sometimes I think he can separate
Drica. . . . .hehe
RevRandy. . . . .we may feel it, but I don't believe it is actually true
Drica. . . . .Sometimes I think Rev
Drica. . . . .Well, on people's mind
Gus. . . . .REV I have reconciled myself to God I Truly cannot live without God in my life. God lives within me to deny him is to deny myself
RevRandy. . . . .That's what I mean gus - exactly - and to get into long theological argumentation denies that simple perspective
Gus. . . . .REV exactly
Drica. . . . .I think people sometimes believe him so much that forget about themselves
RevRandy. . . . .either end of the pole is dangerous - all god, no person or all person and no god
Gus. . . . .That makes sense Rev
Elissa. . . . .what's helpful to remember is that we are ALL irreplaceable parts of the whole... all of us are a unique piece of the universal puzzle
RevRandy. . . . .but to be a participant and partner and creator and created all at once
kath. . . . .yes about the puzzle E, sometimes i step back a bit and sense the bigger picture
Elissa. . . . .it helps me to understand those i don't understand kath
Gus. . . . .yes Elissa even those we have lost
Elissa. . . . .yes gus, and they are not lost
Gus. . . . .True Elissa
Faith. . . . .The one lesson I attempted to live before Brian's death, and continue to live even more fully is to "love wastefully"
RevRandy. . . . .before we begin again (in a formal way) I would like to share a poem
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Elissa. . . . .well, shall we focus on hope now? what are your hopes for this new millennium?
TF88. . . . .ahhhh, my hope is that I will actually recognize my path with each step as it happens
TF88. . . . .did that make sense? LOL
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RevRandy. . . . .yep
beka. . . . .oh yeah, TF!
Elissa. . . . .hmmm... tf i believe we are always on our path
TF88. . . . .yes, I want to recognize it though :)
TF88. . . . .LOL I hope for a lot!
Drica. . . . .hehe
beka. . . . .i think we recognize by a sense of peace, wholeness and spark in the heart
RevRandy. . . . .but to see it as it happens, and not just view it in retrospective (being radically present)
beka. . . . .radically present, radically open. those pretty well capture my hopes
RevRandy. . . . .(( we do think alike))
beka. . . . .smiles
Faith. . . . .My surviving children will be safe, and I will know serenity and acceptance
Drica. . . . .My hope is that I can survive to see 2001 coming
Tayler. . . . .Hello...Peace and love to you all.
Elissa. . . . .hi tayler! welcome back :)
Gus. . . . .My hope is to become more aware. More aware of those around me; and how what I say and do affects the lives of others
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Elissa. . . . .((((((suwan))))))
beka. . . . .suwan, hi!
Tayler. . . . .hi suwan
suwan. . . . .hi everyone!
RevRandy. . . . .hi suwan
TF88. . . . .hi suwan!
kybear. . . . .hi suwan!!
Elissa. . . . .we're talking about our hopes for the new millennium
Drica. . . . .hi su
Gus. . . . .hi suwan
suwan. . . . .:)
Drica. . . . .Ok, My hope is to put in practice what I have learned in 1999
zee. . . . .MY hope is to spread Love
kath. . . . .my hope is that as this journey continues love will magnify within and without
kath. . . . .LOL zee
RevRandy. . . . .I also hope that I can embrace the notion of hope, that there is always meaning on the other side of any experience
Tayler. . . . .*singing* All ya need is LOVE...
Elissa. . . . .amen randy
Elissa. . . . .lol tayler
Gus. . . . .spread it like butter thick and sweet
RevRandy. . . . .and let it flow like honey
Elissa. . . . .deb? don't just sit there looking pretty
Deb. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .what are your hopes for the new millennium?
Gus. . . . .I am glad that today I have hope there was a time when??????
TF88. . . . .gus, I appreciate what you said about your hope
Elissa. . . . .((((((gus)))))) me too
Tayler. . . . .*singing* All we are saying...is give peace a chance...
Drica. . . . .My hope is that I can travel to USA.
Drica. . . . .don't laugh!
beka. . . . .where are you drica?
Drica. . . . .Brazil
beka. . . . .kool!
RevRandy. . . . .or warm
Tayler. . . . .*singing* Don't worry...be happy!
Elissa. . . . .i want to go to rio
RevRandy. . . . .saw y'all on TV the other night celebrating
TF88. . . . .then go elissa :)
Elissa. . . . .ok tf... bye :)
Tayler. . . . .:o)
Elissa. . . . .tayler is tuneful tonight
Drica. . . . .I live in São Paulo
Drica. . . . .Rio is beautiful, but dangerous
beka. . . . .go on...
Drica. . . . .Really, to go to USA, I will have to do a lot of things I never done
Drica. . . . .like work, save money and live by myself
RevRandy. . . . .I guess I would also add that I hope that I have hopes that are not too specific, but more process oriented
RevRandy. . . . .in that when we cast our hopes as discreet images (like the ideas we had decades ago about our lives in 2000) we open ourselves to being disappointed
Drica. . . . .I agree with you Rev
beka. . . . .hopes vs. wants
Tayler. . . . .*singing* I'm a travellin' man...made a lot of stops...all over the world...
Drica. . . . .And if we share our dreams, it means we can fail
beka. . . . .vs. phantasies
RevRandy. . . . .but when our hopes are in the process, that we can survive the great losses, that we can find meaning even then (meaning we cannot envision before)
RevRandy. . . . .and that the real hopes may be in fulfillments whose names we do not yet know, and whose faces are strangers to us now
kath. . . . .i had a stroke last tuesday, so i also hope to recover fully and to open to all the possible potential good in this experience
TF88. . . . .{{{{{{healing light kath}}}}}}
beka. . . . .((((kath))))
kath. . . . .ty TF
Elissa. . . . .o kath!!! i'm sorry! i didn't know!
kath. . . . .it makes this talk so real to me
RevRandy. . . . .o kath -- may you know the reality of hope made reality
Elissa. . . . .kath, i'm so glad you're well enough to join us tonight
kath. . . . .ty
zee. . . . .Kath, teach only love for that is what you are
Gus. . . . .glad you could come back so soon kath
Elissa. . . . .i hope to grow, to learn, to be able to enjoy life more fully and appreciate the abundance of what i have and what i can offer to others... without fear
Gus. . . . .we must be willing to allow our live to take different trails from time to time who knows what we might learn
beka. . . . ."let go of the life we have planned, so to have the life awaiting us"
RevRandy. . . . .yes beka
Tayler. . . . .*singing* Strangers in the night...
RevRandy. . . . .it is in the anticipation, not the anticipated
beka. . . . .the posture, not the grasping
Drica. . . . .Well, what I want more is that I can put on practice everything I have learned in 1999, really.
Drica. . . . .at least all the pain would worth!
Elissa. . . . .drica, you're already doing that
RevRandy. . . . .righto
Drica. . . . .Am I?
Elissa. . . . .sure you are, by sharing with all of us :)
Drica. . . . .yeah you are right!
Drica. . . . .so, I am on the way!
RevRandy. . . . .yes you are!
Drica. . . . .thanks!
RevRandy. . . . .you are not silent - can you hear your own voice of hope?
Drica. . . . .yeah, because changed
TF88. . . . .drica, you are also using all that you have learned from your entire existence...you have much to draw from
Drica. . . . .sometimes we all forget it Tf
TF88. . . . .yes drica...it can be hard to remember, especially in times of trauma
Drica. . . . .yup, and these are the times we have to remember more about all of what we have learned
RevRandy. . . . .kath - how are you doing
kath. . . . .good Rev, processing the experience etc
kath. . . . .recovery miracle
kath. . . . .so grateful
RevRandy. . . . .let it take its own pace too
kath. . . . .a little slow
RevRandy. . . . .you are typing betre than I am
kath. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .i'll tell you something interesting i have heard so far... none of us has talked about a "mass" hope... all of us have focused on our own learning and fulfillment!
Elissa. . . . .i believe that reflects a real knowing we all have that we must take responsibility for our own journey
TF88. . . . .and that we cannot change others
TF88. . . . .except by example...then it is their choice
kath. . . . .mass hope
kath. . . . .i agree
RevRandy. . . . .it will not be a movement, but the collective realities of all of our individual hopes
kath. . . . .i think we encourage hope when we do not give energy to fear and hate
Elissa. . . . .i hear so many "spiritual" seekers talking about a mass change and instant enlightenment for all at the same time
Jack. . . . .Ditto on that one elissa
Tayler. . . . .*singing* Oh we've got...HIGH HOPES...
RevRandy. . . . .and there is no "magic" answer that, if adopted, would save humankind, poof
RevRandy. . . . .but many paths towards the future of meaning
Drica. . . . .Elissa, do you think people have all the same hope about the world?
Elissa. . . . .drica, we are all unique so how could we all have the same vision? would we even want that?
kath. . . . .hope is contagious
RevRandy. . . . .and it is the one contagious thing I want to catch!
beka. . . . .hope by osmosis
Elissa. . . . .lol beka
kath. . . . .we are spreading hope by giving energy
TF88. . . . .giving energy? or creating energy?
kath. . . . .both
TF88. . . . .hmm, yes both
TF88. . . . .good point
kath. . . . .:)
Gus. . . . .hope is a major essence of life
RevRandy. . . . .to see any energy pathway as one way is limiting
Drica. . . . .elissa you told about enlightenment
Drica. . . . .this is what I know from a book I have been reading
Elissa. . . . .enlightenment will come one person at a time
Tayler. . . . .*singing* Goodnight sweetheart...well it's time to go... ( bye all)
RevRandy. . . . .night Tayler
beka. . . . .thank you songster!
Elissa. . . . .nite tayler, thanks for the background music lol
RevRandy. . . . .*singing* happy trails to you
Gus. . . . .nite ta
beka. . . . .until we meet again...
RevRandy. . . . .:-)
Drica. . . . .I think the mass fear some people who are in the power
Drica. . . . .How can the mass hope something if they fear too
TF88. . . . .having hope and putting hope into action are a bit different I think
Elissa. . . . .tf, according to rikkity hope IS the mechanism of change
kath. . . . .aha
TF88. . . . .yes elissa, that makes sense
Elissa. . . . .it allows us to act and do new things
kath. . . . .i am just thinking of what heals my hopelessness and kindness is a big energizer
beka. . . . .i think elissa meant hope for the masses....
beka. . . . .or for the breadth of the world
Elissa. . . . .i meant the same hope for everyone... even if we have the same general hopes (world peace, etc) we don't all envision it the same way
RevRandy. . . . .I read it as the kind of promised hope that requires subscription to something outside of oneself; creedal hope
Drica. . . . .We are unique but we are all human beings that have the same heart
beka. . . . .hmmm! thus the conundrum of language
RevRandy. . . . .and some of us are more unique than others ......
Gus. . . . .would it be to much to hope that no one must go hungry or sleep without shelter?
kath. . . . .no gus it is not
RevRandy. . . . .food, shelter, safety
RevRandy. . . . .should be a foundation of life
RevRandy. . . . .so that all can then move to hope, love, trust, etc
Elissa. . . . .no gus, and we need to have that vision
RevRandy. . . . .If Maslow is right, we will never have a peaceful, loving world until that is true
beka. . . . .well, even common sense tells us that's right.
Gus. . . . .there are many without that foundation for life I fear
RevRandy. . . . .too many, and even one would be too many
Gus. . . . .yes REV
RevRandy. . . . .but until the politics and economics understand this ...
Drica. . . . .this is what I wanted to mean Rev
Drica. . . . .they take the hopes of the mass
RevRandy. . . . .they make promises in the guise of hopes, and then use those promises to deny the real hope
Drica. . . . .now, tell me, do they want the same of us?
RevRandy. . . . .Drica, if you can find it, look at the closing speech by Charlie Chaplin at the end of his movie "Great Dictator" - the speech is in his autobiography
RevRandy. . . . .it speaks powerfully to this theme of the tension between the leaders (of all kinds) and the people
Drica. . . . .I have to look what's the portuguese name first :o)
Elissa. . . . .that's a place to start... stop hording what we have and share!!!
beka. . . . .hard to put into tangible real practice, elissa.
Gus. . . . .I personally have much I could do without
Elissa. . . . .yes it is beka, but we can stop deifying millionaires and buying into that whole attitude that says "he with the most toys wins" and focus more on others in need than on those who have too much
beka. . . . .ok...
Jack. . . . .Well put Elissa
Gus. . . . .like most my needs are few my wants too many
Elissa. . . . .it is our focus that will create the reality of the future
Elissa. . . . .as rikkity says: "Focus gives substance to the theoretical framework called possibility."
TF88. . . . .goodnight all, light and love
beka. . . . .and very sleepy, i bid you all adieu... hugs, beka
RevRandy. . . . .ooo, ouch TF
RevRandy. . . . .night beka
Gus. . . . .nite TF 88
beka. . . . .smiles.
suwan. . . . .goodnight from me too, have a nice vacation
Elissa. . . . .nite beka :)
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RevRandy. . . . .night TF
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Gus. . . . .nite beka
RevRandy. . . . .it is a mass movement
Elissa. . . . .lol
kath. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .but each left alone
Gus. . . . .yes alone
RevRandy. . . . .a perfect example
Elissa. . . . .a perfect example of what?
RevRandy. . . . .of how people acting on their own can create the sense of a mass movement
Elissa. . . . .o ok :)
Elissa. . . . .ok, winding down here... any last thoughts?
Drica. . . . .I think that all is relative
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Elissa. . . . .hi pinky
Gus. . . . .hi pinky
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Gus. . . . .hi jaye
Drica. . . . .I think it's relative, There are peoples who aren't interested about peace, love, because money is important, for instance
Elissa. . . . .yes drica
Elissa. . . . .interesting though that everyone talked about their own personal hopes... that's what will change the world
kath. . . . .ditto
RevRandy. . . . .but why is money so important - as a way to make up for feelings of some lack
kath. . . . .money is only money, it carries our projection
Drica. . . . .For some people money is the one who brings happiness??
Drica. . . . .maybe?
RevRandy. . . . .they like to think so -- but if it does, why do any rich people need drugs, etc
Gus. . . . .Good point REV
Gus. . . . .I have witnessed this in action
Gus. . . . .man with more money than he can spend in a lifetime and unhappy
Gus. . . . .I actually felt sorry for him
Elissa. . . . .money is only a tool, a symbol... it can't bring happiness to someone who doesn't feel fulfilled
Drica. . . . .because they think it does, but we all know it does not, so, they try to find their happiness inside of them, not through meditation Rev
Elissa. . . . .yes, that's why people with a lot of money so often feel they don't have enough
RevRandy. . . . .our two younger daughters both took trips into areas of poverty in central and south america, and found more authentic joy there than here
kath. . . . .experience no money can buy
RevRandy. . . . .yep
Drica. . . . .yup, it is relative, and I want to go to USA,
Drica. . . . .people think here is better
Drica. . . . .it’s all relative
Elissa. . . . .come on over, drica! come to virginia it's beautiful!
RevRandy. . . . .anywhere is better when we are truly there -
RevRandy. . . . .open to it for what it is, not in comparison
Elissa. . . . .it's not a place that's better, it's who we are in that place
kath. . . . .here is good
Drica. . . . .hehe, I have money and my parent's permission first!
Elissa. . . . .whatever it takes, drica :)
RevRandy. . . . .and it will happen when it happens (I was in my thirties before I traveled overseas)
Drica. . . . .I will, this is why I will have to work
Drica. . . . .and this will change my life, don't you think so?
RevRandy. . . . .drica - you are already changing your life
RevRandy. . . . .(( we should mention that we will next be back here for discussion on the evening of January 23rd))
kath. . . . .:( oke
Gus. . . . .why so far away
Elissa. . . . .we're going on vacation gus
RevRandy. . . . .(( we are going on vacation to a place beyond the reach of our modem cords ))
Gus. . . . .OK
kath. . . . .awesome Rev Elissa
Gus. . . . .glad to hear it REV ENJOY
Elissa. . . . .and much needed, kath. thanks
RevRandy. . . . .ty gus
RevRandy. . . . .and kath - off to the sun
kath. . . . .and the sun
kath. . . . .wow
kath. . . . .Elissa and the sun, you are truly blessed
Elissa. . . . .well, it's been a great discussion tonight and we'll miss you for the next 2 weeks!
kath. . . . .sending lots of love
kath. . . . .and very happy for you both
RevRandy. . . . .(we will think of you all ... if we are thinking at all)
Elissa. . . . .kath you must promise us to take good care of yourself
kath. . . . .yes Elissa, another opportunity
Jack. . . . .Glad to be here for this chat.
kath. . . . .good nite all
RevRandy. . . . .it has been awesome tonight - thank you all!
Elissa. . . . .glad you were here jack!
RevRandy. . . . .jack - ty
RevRandy. . . . .for your being here
Gus. . . . .good night and may the power and grace of God be with you in the new year Good nite all
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 2,13!Elissa rainbow.mid 13,2 :o)
Elissa. . . . .goodnight gus
Elissa. . . . .thank you :)
RevRandy. . . . .I hope you all have visited us at www.spiritualpersistence.com
Drica. . . . .thanks rev!
RevRandy. . . . .good night to all - may your hopes multiply, and as they do watch the fears melt (I'm melting, I'm melting)
Elissa. . . . .lol
Jack. . . . .Best wishes to all
Elissa. . . . .happy new millennium!
Drica. . . . .Good dreams everyone!
RevRandy. . . . .remember a new millennium begins in every moment
Elissa. . . . .nite drica, dream of virginia :)
Drica. . . . .I will
Elissa. . . . .thanks for being here
RevRandy. . . . .nite all!!!!
Drica. . . . .thanks for the chat!
RevRandy. . . . .thank you
Session Close: Sun Jan 02 23:03:38 2000